Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Duty, Honor, Service and Patriotism.
How easy it is to get people to commit the most abject atrocities as long as you can convince them into believing they're doing it for the above reasons.
Yes, Duty, Honor, Country -
Obviously, you have not become aware of the places where children with birth defects were put by Saddam - to rot. Or, the cities / towns that had no water, or electricity.
You did not hear about lack of medical care -
You have not heard about our troops being killed while treating Iraqis - or, the hospital with 40 kids with birth defects being deliberately targeted - not only were the kids killed but so were a number of our brave men and women -
Let me say this: I would stand side by side with those you criticize so harshly - for their bravery is something that you will never have. Their Honor is something you cannot ever imagine. Their sense of Duty is something you do not now, nor will ever, have -
You know, I am extremely anti-Iraq-war, but I must draw the line. American soldiers, many of them who left America as little more than idealistic boys have been sent to enforce American policy by men who are still trying to figure out exactly what that policy is. They do as soldiers before them have done, which is their duty to enforce policy, not to make it. War is a horrid thing and the people who fight it are often called upon to do horrid things, this is reality.
For their service I am forever grateful and understand quite well this reality which they face. To put ones life up as a stake for what a person believes in is a quality that I wish more people shared. While I may not agree with the policy that has led them there, I will always respect those who put their country and its citizens before themselves.
I pity you if you cannot see this, as one day there may just be a need to save your butt from a fire, and if that day ever comes, good luck on finding a soldier willing to return your gratitude.
Me too. If there ever comes a time when a real enemy soldier comes to my homeland to invade then I'm sure I'd appreciate some U.S. Army back-up to save my butt from the real fire.
In the meantime, I'd show my support of the troops by KEEPING THEM AT HOME and dispatching instead the FBI & CIA in an international POLICE ACTION MANHUNT to ARREST the handful of criminals that attacked us.
All nations would have cooperated eagerly together with us, hundreds of thousands of lives saved, we would have found the guilty by now, justice would have been served, our international image would be intact, trillions would have been saved and orthopedic legs and arms would have remained limited to the subject of sci-fi movies.
I don't think ANYONE is on the same planet with you, or in the same galaxy, for that matter. Your viewpoint is so far out there it's unrecognizable.
These days, it's about as unrecognizable as the U.S. Constitution to some folks. As unrecognizable as the now apparently extinct maternal instinct for opposing war.
Obviously, you have not become aware of the places where children with birth defects were put by Saddam - to rot. Or, the cities / towns that had no water, or electricity.
USA should stop policing the world in any case. The troops could have been used to defend the borders against illegal immigrants. That way they would have somehow defended America. The Iraq war is not about defending America.
You should also look up when Rumsfeld shook Saddam's hand in 1983.
Quote:
You have not heard about our troops being killed while treating Iraqis - or, the hospital with 40 kids with birth defects being deliberately targeted - not only were the kids killed but so were a number of our brave men and women -
Why should the troops be put in that precarious situation in the first place? There are good reasons why they are unwelcome in Iraq. What do you think most Americans would do in the very unlikely event USA was invaded?
Well, SeanMc...some of what you wrote in your original post has gone through my mind as well. But consider some things here.
What if it was one of your chilldren, or parents, or siblings, who was in Iraq right now? Wouldn't it be extremely difficult for you to view things the way you do?
Did it influence Cindy Sheehan or the Tillman family?. They saw their family members and themselves duped into giving their blood for nothing. And in payment they got lies, spin and ultimately betrayal.
Quote:
If you can keep in mind those who went into this convinced they were protecting American people (I don't believe they are at all, but making things worse, but that is beside the point), wouldn't you give them that?
Of course I would. But then we get them into the 'just obeying orders' department and that doesn't excuse a volunteer soldier. The person who volunteers to blindly put his destiny into the hands politicians is certainly accountable for his/her actions. There was a choice.
Quote:
I have no idea what it's like to be in their shoes. (Yes--this point has already been made but I wanted to make it again). These are life and death situations. So I don't agree with what we're doing there. Even so, I have never, ever (and hope never to be) a member of the military dealing with what they're dealing with daily. I don't think either of us is in a position to criticize them the way you have.
I'm in a seated position. Should I stand?.
Just joking.
I can certainly relate to the American citizen who is drafted and forced to go overseas in order to slaughter people against whom we have no legitimate beef. He/she has no choice but to go and is as much a victim as the innocents they are forced to kill.
But someone who voluntarily signs-up to commit atrocities in exchange for some crappy college-funding or to 'learn a trade' (like blowing people up -lots of demand for that in the private sector ya know!) is a loser in my books right off the bat.
I remember reading an article fairly recently about some airforce douchebag who works M-F / 9am-5pm from a secret airbase in Nevada. His job?. Piloting a remote control bomber flying missions thousands of miles away in Iraq. He sits at a desk (I kid you not) with his coffee mug at hand and follows the directives of on-the-ground observers who help him 'pin-point' his targets. Totally clueless as to the accuracy of his spotters he simply annihilates whatever he is told to annihilate. "My bad" if it turns out the 'munitions depot' he just blew-up turned out to actually be just a childrens hospital or powdered-milk factory. Then this guy goes home every night, hugs his kids and they probably all sit around the dinner table while the wife asks him "Sooo, how was your day at the office honey?".
I can answer for him. "It was MURDER babe!".
wow!! I am very close to speachless, now I know how the soldiers returning from vietnam felt when being called baby killers.
I am not easly offended, but this one just offends me to no end. i dont even know what else to add. just wow, where is the patriotism in this? if you dont like the country, please feel free to leave, I am sure you would be accepted by many of the countrys in the middle east.
It is really frustrating to debate un-informed people.
could it be that when you run into a majority of people that are upset about what you are saying, are actualy not the ones that are un-informed? could it be that you might be mis-informed?
Did it influence Cindy Sheehan or the Tillman family?. They saw their family members and themselves duped into giving their blood for nothing. And in payment they got lies, spin and ultimately betrayal.
Of course I would. But then we get them into the 'just obeying orders' department and that doesn't excuse a volunteer soldier. The person who volunteers to blindly put his destiny into the hands politicians is certainly accountable for his/her actions. There was a choice.
I'm in a seated position. Should I stand?.
Just joking.
If i remember, you are in opposition to iraq. Pat Tillman, if I remember correctly, was killed by Taliban soldiers in Afghanistan
If i remember, you are in opposition to iraq. Pat Tillman, if I remember correctly, was killed by Taliban soldiers in Afghanistan
No...He was killed by friendly fire. The Bush Administration said he was killed by the Taliban as a propaganda tool.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As unrecognizable as the now apparently extinct maternal instinct for opposing war.
