Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ummm...markets respond to economic activity. Markets could give a rat's ass whether wages are mandated or not. Rising wages are felt equally whether given freely or mandated by government.
The OP has an excellent point, but I've yet to read it addressed by anyone. The only difference between a mandated wage increase and a voluntary increase is in a company's ability to plan. Outside of that, a $1 raise is a $1 raise, regardless of the methods used.
Yes, and the CBO has cited that the markets would respond to the increase with a number of adjustments including the firing of less efficient workers and around 500k jobs effected in that manner.
The OP of course completely denies that would happen.
Wages in this country have much more to with Supply and Demand than Skill Based Pay.
.
That's true, too. That's why you can make more money slinging burgers and working in motels/hotels in the oil boomtowns of North Dakota with their very low unemployment rate even through the worst of the recession. They need more workers than they have in lower-skilled jobs and all blue collar jobs so they pay them more. They can't build homes fast enough. All of that bodes well for workers. Now, let's think about that for a minute.
Why don't more workers move to where the better paying jobs are located?
Why isn't North Dakota held up by the administration as the shining example for putting people back to work? Give you a hint. It doesn't fry birds like solar panels or chop them up like wind turbines.
Why don't we have more boom towns in the US?
Why is it that for 6 years people keep saying "jobs" is the Number 1 priority but the Democrat in the White House and his peeps on Capitol Hill ignore the most obvious way to get a lot of people who are unemployed (the least educated) to make money the old fashioned way, by working? Could it be that the less dependent they are on Democrats to give them stuff, the less likely they are to vote for them?
Whenever the debate comes up on the minimum wage, detractors automatically say that it's risky to raise the minimum wage as it could increase prices and unemployment. What they fail to acknowledge or ignore for that matter is that these adverse effects take place with wage hikes in other industries. Why do you think higher education tuition have ballooned? Why are healthcare costs through the roof? The same adverse effects you see with a minimum wage increase is also visible with wage hikes in other sectors of the economy.
Its really just as always reward for highly wanted professions. Society values some things more than others. Supply and demand.
That's true, too. That's why you can make more money slinging burgers and working in motels/hotels in the oil boomtowns of North Dakota with their very low unemployment rate even through the worst of the recession. They need more workers than they have in lower-skilled jobs and all blue collar jobs so they pay them more. They can't build homes fast enough. All of that bodes well for workers. Now, let's think about that for a minute.
Why don't more workers move to where the better paying jobs are located?
Why isn't North Dakota held up by the administration as the shining example for putting people back to work? Give you a hint. It doesn't fry birds like solar panels or chop them up like wind turbines.
Why don't we have more boom towns in the US?
Why is it that for 6 years people keep saying "jobs" is the Number 1 priority but the Democrat in the White House and his peeps on Capitol Hill ignore the most obvious way to get a lot of people who are unemployed (the least educated) to make money the old fashioned way, by working? Could it be that the less dependent they are on Democrats to give them stuff, the less likely they are to vote for them?
I hate to reply to myself but my editing window of opportunity closed.
"Believe it or not, a place exists where companies are hiring like crazy, and you can make $15 an hour serving tacos, $25 an hour waiting tables and $80,000 a year driving trucks. You just have to move to North Dakota. Specifically, to one of the tiny towns surrounding the oil-rich Bakken formation, estimated to hold anywhere between 4 billion and 24 billion barrels of oil. Oil companies have only recently discovered ways to tap this reserve. And along with the manpower needed to extract the oil, the town is now scrambling to find workers to support the new rush of labor...With oil companies paying top dollar to the new onslaught of workers they need -- doling out average salaries of $70,000, and more than $100,000 including over-time -- other local businesses are boosting their pay to compete."
There is such a housing shortage they are telling people they could make a killing by coming up and renting out their RV.
Oil jobs where no bachelors degree are required:
Well Control Specialist or Well Tester: $102,868
Coil Tubing Specialist: $106,976
Rig Manager: $140,560 (this one is a work your way up job - most rig managers start at the bottom as a rig hand or roustabout)
Yes, and the CBO has cited that the markets would respond to the increase with a number of adjustments including the firing of less efficient workers and around 500k jobs effected in that manner.
The OP of course completely denies that would happen.
What the OP denies is irrelevant to my point (and his, as I can see). The point is that markets respond to all wage increases, whether those increases are voluntary or mandated. What the OP is asking is why do people oppose minimum wage increases based on inflationary pressure, yet those same people are silent with regard to other wage increases. IOW, If I oppose something because of a rise in the cost of goods, to be consistent, I must oppose this other thing that also raises the cost of goods.
On another note, what does the CBO say about the increased economic activity that occurs when more money is put into the hands of consumers? Business owners, generally speaking, already consume what they need. Anything extra usually goes to investments. Unless these investments go to start-ups, they create no jobs. They do create income for brokers, but not jobs.
I disagree...
a mandated wage (government or union) is an across the board wage increase for that level...regardless of ABILLITY (SKILL) or PERFORMANCE
a voluntary raise based on annual/semi-annual/quarterly reviews is based on performance
why should the worst mechanic in town get paid the same as the best mechanic in town
""""pay for performance""" is a term/phrase that scares liberals and union thugs
Are you sure you're responding to the right post? I mentioned nothing about performance. I was talking about inflation and unemployment.
But just to throw a cog into your wheel, there's this thing called a COLA. At my company, we all receive this adjustment, regardless of performance. That's what's being attempted with the minimum wage. It's not intended to be a performance bonus. Using the logic of some here, the minimum wage would still be 30 cents an hour.
Last edited by CaseyB; 09-24-2014 at 04:23 AM..
Reason: rude
What the OP denies is irrelevant to my point (and his, as I can see). The point is that markets respond to all wage increases, whether those increases are voluntary or mandated. What the OP is asking is why do people oppose minimum wage increases based on inflationary pressure, yet those same people are silent with regard to other wage increases. IOW, If I oppose something because of a rise in the cost of goods, to be consistent, I must oppose this other thing that also raises the cost of goods.
It's relevant when people make patently false claims so stop handwaving.
Specific to the *mandate* let me break it down for you.
A non-mandated wage increase is driven by a business decision after weighing several options.
So, let's assume there is wage pressure at a grocery store in Iowa because there are higher paying jobs at the other grocery store down the street.
The store can:
1) Use non-wage benefits to keep employees like being flexible with hours and scheduling.
2) Hire the people that the other grocery store won't and hoping that your lower prices will offset poorer service. Say goodbye to those grocery baggers with downs syndrome and so forth.
3) etc.
This is why food prices at places like Aldi are half that of Whole Foods in our town. Guess where poorer people shop especially those on fixed incomes that are retired and would not gain additional income from a higher minimum wage?
I have now explained why they are not the same thing.
Now a question for you. Why do you feel a much higher NATIONAL minimum wage is a reasonable for both San Francisco and some small town in rural Iowa where housing (among other things) is 1/4 the price of San Fran?
Have you ever lived on your own, paying your own bills, in both a high and low income area? I have. I'm not sure you are getting where a lot of the opposition is coming from and this is it.
So first you claim that increases in medical costs were due to increases in medical wages.
Now you say it doesn't matter if wages went up or not.
You previously conceded that after first stating that higher education costs went up due to wages is instead subject to debate.
So essentially, your initial OP you now admit was faulty when presented with actual information showing otherwise....but you now claim that none of that matters.
#mostironicpostername
Wages are a factor for high costs in health care and education. They aren't the only factors, but they contribute.
It's relevant when people make patently false claims so stop handwaving.
Specific to the *mandate* let me break it down for you.
A non-mandated wage increase is driven by a business decision after weighing several options.
So, let's assume there is wage pressure at a grocery store in Iowa because there are higher paying jobs at the other grocery store down the street.
The store can:
1) Use non-wage benefits to keep employees like being flexible with hours and scheduling.
2) Hire the people that the other grocery store won't and hoping that your lower prices will offset poorer service. Say goodbye to those grocery baggers with downs syndrome and so forth.
3) etc.
This is why food prices at places like Aldi are half that of Whole Foods in our town. Guess where poorer people shop especially those on fixed incomes that are retired and would not gain additional income from a higher minimum wage?
I have now explained why they are not the same thing.
Now a question for you. Why do you feel a much higher NATIONAL minimum wage is a reasonable for both San Francisco and some small town in rural Iowa where housing (among other things) is 1/4 the price of San Fran?
Have you ever lived on your own, paying your own bills, in both a high and low income area? I have. I'm not sure you are getting where a lot of the opposition is coming from and this is it.
This isn't the point. Most wages in the US are not at equilibrium. If you want cheap prices for products and services, open the borders, but you wouldn't approve of that. Until then, don't complain when people demand to raise the minimum wage as wages in other sectors are inflated to begin with.
You say that, but it's not true. All American wages are established by government protectionism. If open borders were to be implemented, equilibrium will set in.
Don't make that giant leap of indirect relationship. You cannot simply claim our wages are protected by the government. There is no floor for my pay - I lost significant compensation during the last recession. No law passed by Congress set a floor for my pay nor increased it.
As I am in the software business, my company employs people around the world. We compete for people everywhere.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
