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Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,826 die per year in the US (CDC 2011). Obama spending millions to deal with Ebola while other country's are spending how much?
This week, Chicago experienced 2 cases of unrelated inbound travelers arriving on connecting flights from Europe who demonstrated potential Ebola symptoms during the screening process. They were immediately taken to two separate hospitals for evaluation. One was cleared. The other, a child was tested for Ebola.
The national media did not sieze on this. There was no panic. The child's test for Ebola came back negative, yesterday.
If Congress were really concerned with protecting the US people, more so than using Ebola as a political tool, they would have interrupted their protracted vacations and campaigning and reconvened and voted to ban or restrict travel that originates in one of the affected countries. But they have not done so.
Instead they put their self interests first and seek face time. This goes for both parties. Ebola does not check passports or political affiliation before attaching to a host.
Oh, I completely agree with you. I was responding to the comment that this guy felt under the weather and yet still ran several miles, went bowling, and kept his busy schedule. The poster said they were exhausted just typing the list of things the guy did. I was only pointing out how doctors are different kind of people - very driven, used to pushing themselves to the limit with hectic schedules and lack of sleep.
As for this guy not doing his self-imposed quarantine, I don't get it. Hopefully he did not have relations with his girlfriend. He was monitoring himself for symptoms. These guys are so convinced they're safe in their hazmat suits and protocol, and very much wedded to the idea that you can be around people and not be contagious until becoming symptomatic. That seems to be possible with the cases we've had so far in this country, but I'm not so sure that's true in Guinea. It's pretty bad there. That doctor could have followed the hazmat protocols to the letter and yet he still picked it up somehow. Maybe he picked it up from the normal everyday people he met there when he was not treating patients in his hazmat suit.
If I was him, I would have stayed away from public places at least. Imagine what's going to happen to that bowling alley's business?
You bring up an excellent point and one that I don't see addressed often enough.
It's not enough just to think of the odds of actually passing on the virus. You also have to think of the public good, the cost to tax payers AND the cost to local businesses and the local economy if you do indeed come down with Ebola.
For instance, think of the bridal shop in Ohio where that nurse shopped just prior to being diagnosed. Think about all the unnecessary expense and drama that Frontier Airlines (one of my favorite airlines but I digress) had to go through. Think about the unnecessary euthanasia of the Spanish nurse's dog. Think about the hassle the schools in Dallas went through - and all the parents and kids - when they had to be closed for cleaning. Think of the stigma attached to the apartment complex where Duncan lived. I mean, this stuff has an economic ripple effect.
I think a lot of the "abundance of caution" stuff is, frankly, ridiculous - but I see the reasoning behind a lot of it. Ebola is new to this country, much of the information out there is self contradictory or confusing, and businesses and schools, etc. have to worry about liability and loss of customers and the often over the top fears of the local population. Ironically, the very measures they sometimes feel compelled to take, to show their "ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION" actually feed the hysteria.
I wish that these healthcare workers, however, would take that "abundance of caution" thing a bit more seriously though - restricting their movements and travel plans for 21 days would be a good start. If they would do that, a lot of this economic drama could be avoided.
The point is, when one returns from West Africa after directly treating ebola patients, symptomatic or not, a professional should have the common sense to remember the incubation period is 21 days and that it is possible that s/he may have been infected on one of the final days in Africa. His "temp" occurred within 10 days.
How many people in the subways and bowling alleys could have "come in contact"? Who knows? NYC is not the desert. This is reassuring: "We want to state at the outset that New Yorkers have no reason to be alarmed," de Blasio said. "New Yorkers who have not been exposed are not at all at risk." Thanks for clarifying that, Mr. Mayor.
Trouble is, those who may have been exposed but don't know it will go about as usual. They could very well be at risk. Quelling fears does not amount to dealing with ebola. Far better to be aware and extra cautious than not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge
Why? If you are not symptomatic, you are not contagious. People who came into casual contact with him aren't at risk, because Ebola is NOT the flu. He wasn't drooling on people. Blood wasn't coming out of his orifices. Ebola is NOT the flu.
However, it has "flu-like" symptoms. In flu season, lots of people have those symptoms.
You bring up an excellent point and one that I don't see addressed often enough.
It's not enough just to think of the odds of actually passing on the virus. You also have to think of the public good, the cost to tax payers AND the cost to local businesses and the local economy if you do indeed come down with Ebola.
For instance, think of the bridal shop in Ohio where that nurse shopped just prior to being diagnosed. Think about all the unnecessary expense and drama that Frontier Airlines (one of my favorite airlines but I digress) had to go through. Think about the unnecessary euthanasia of the Spanish nurse's dog. Think about the hassle the schools in Dallas went through - and all the parents and kids - when they had to be closed for cleaning. Think of the stigma attached to the apartment complex where Duncan lived. I mean, this stuff has an economic ripple effect.
I think a lot of the "abundance of caution" stuff is, frankly, ridiculous - but I see the reasoning behind a lot of it. Ebola is new to this country, much of the information out there is self contradictory or confusing, and businesses and schools, etc. have to worry about liability and loss of customers and the often over the top fears of the local population. Ironically, the very measures they sometimes feel compelled to take, to show their "ABUNDANCE OF CAUTION" actually feed the hysteria.
I wish that these healthcare workers, however, would take that "abundance of caution" thing a bit more seriously though - restricting their movements and travel plans for 21 days would be a good start. If they would do that, a lot of this economic drama could be avoided.
If the public would not panic, then the measures you cite would not be needed. The thing is that even a quarantine is not really needed. All that seems to be necessary is to closely monitor for 21 days. As we have more and more cases, we will become inured to the news and the panicky reactions will become less frequent. The NYC case, in fact, seems to be raising very little angst in comparison to the one in Dallas. In part, that is because NYC did a much better job with it all around, but also because it is not so novel anymore.
Why? If you are not symptomatic, you are not contagious. People who came into casual contact with him aren't at risk, because Ebola is NOT the flu. He wasn't drooling on people. Blood wasn't coming out of his orifices. Ebola is NOT the flu.
Fevers do not (always, anyway) automatically spike directly from normal to 103 degrees +. They climb, slowly but surely. Even though the officials are backtracking and saying his temp was not 103 but 100.3 (quite an irresponsible mistake in reporting, if indeed it's true), that is still a symptom.
I doubt that in the time the man left his apt and took several subways and a taxi and went bowling (and to a restaurant, some reports say) that he took along a thermometer and stopped every hour or two to take his temp. He could well have gotten that fever during his time "out on the town," and by the time he was riding the subway to go home he could have definitely had that classic ebola symptom.
BTW, we're not talking about "casual contact," we're talking about those who may NOT have had just casual contact (however that is defined). Think sweat on bowling balls, a quick cough or sneeze on the subway, handing the cab driver money, even if the driver didn't have an open wound on his hand.
Not concerned. It's only the largest city on the eastern seaboard. We'll see what unfolds day to day. Every morning we wake up to more news of more people being monitored. The next several weeks will reveal the extent of the damage...if we ban travel from W Africa as of today.
If the public would not panic, then the measures you cite would not be needed. The thing is that even a quarantine is not really needed. All that seems to be necessary is to closely monitor for 21 days. As we have more and more cases, we will become inured to the news and the panicky reactions will become less frequent. The NYC case, in fact, seems to be raising very little angst in comparison to the one in Dallas. In part, that is because NYC did a much better job with it all around, but also because it is not so novel anymore.
I agree with this, but that's not my point.
My point is that regardless of "who is panicking" or what entities are causing the panic, the economic impact is real and anyone, especially highly educated professionals who are expected to "self monitor" for ALL symptoms (not just a fever -malaise is also a symptom), should be cognizant of the ramifications of their decisions regarding getting out and about in public.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I fail to see how taking subways and a taxi and going bowling within 10 days of coming back from Africa treating ebola patients is "self-monitoring."
Even though he didn't have symptoms, as the smart and dedicated physician he is being made out to be he should have stayed completely away from public places for 21 days with the assumption that his final day in Africa could even slightly possibly have been his first day of contracting ebola. But assuming that that commonsense can and does fail, it would be nice if the CDC took the responsibility to professionally monitor anyone coming back here after treating or or handling ebola patients, for 21 days starting with the day of return.
Self monitoring is not self quarantining. It's monitoring one's temperature and physical symptoms for 21 days. This is the WHO/ Doctors without Borders/ CDC international protocol. It is the same protocol nurse 1 and 2 used. There was outrage when some inferred that nurse 2 was ibeing blamed , yet it seems to be open season on this doctor, despite the compliance with the same international protocol.
The U.S. could develop and impose stricter protocols than the international standards.
WHO, Doctors without Borders and CDC have a consistent protocol, self monitoring for 21 days. This doctor complied with the international protocol.
Until 10/23, out of more than 700 expats Doctors without Borders deployed, none have developed confirmed Ebola symptoms after returning to their home countries.
Despite reports to the contrary, this doctor did not have a fever until he awoke on 10/23. Despite that it was less than the international threshold, he took it seriously and limited his contacts and called it in. He had contact with 4 people and all 4 are in quarantine, out of an abundance of caution.
The inconsistency between the lack of contagiousness until symptoms are present and contact with body fluids versus the " abundance of caution" contact tracing and disinfection is what is creating panic in those prone to panic and irresponsible fear monitoring for profit by the media.
The temperature taking regime at the airport didn't work. Not imposing a travel ban means more and more Ebola patients will enter the US. 20 will be a crisis. 50 will overwhelm the healthcare system. 100 will shut it down.
Fevers do not (always, anyway) automatically spike directly from normal to 103 degrees +. They climb, slowly but surely. Even though the officials are backtracking and saying his temp was not 103 but 100.3 (quite an irresponsible mistake in reporting, if indeed it's true), that is still a symptom.
I doubt that in the time the man left his apt and took several subways and a taxi and went bowling (and to a restaurant, some reports say) that he took along a thermometer and stopped every hour or two to take his temp. He could well have gotten that fever during his time "out on the town," and by the time he was riding the subway to go home he could have definitely had that classic ebola symptom.
BTW, we're not talking about "casual contact," we're talking about those who may NOT have had just casual contact (however that is defined). Think sweat on bowling balls, a quick cough or sneeze on the subway, handing the cab driver money, even if the driver didn't have an open wound on his hand.
Not concerned. It's only the largest city on the eastern seaboard. We'll see what unfolds day to day. Every morning we wake up to more news of more people being monitored. The next several weeks will reveal the extent of the damage...if we ban travel from W Africa as of today.
100.3. Fevers do spike to 100.3. He was checking his temperature twice a day. When he noted a fever, he notified authorities. He doesn't have to take along a thermometer and check it every hour or two. Because he caught the fever quickly, well before he has a full viral load in his system. It's doubtful that anyone, even his fiancee who was in close contact with him, was exposed to the virus. It's not the FLU. NOT the FLU. The cab driver in Monrovia who drove Duncan and the dying woman and her infected brother around looking for a hospital, never came down with Ebola. And she was shedding the virus. Duncan's girlfriend and other relatives who stayed with him in that apartment, for days after he became feverish, when he was vomiting, didn't come down with Ebola. Amber Vinson's boyfriend didn't come down with Ebola. Because it's NOT the flu.
Fear is the mind-killer.
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