The feminization of the American male? (Brown, stereotypes, income, status)

[Chinolala]

Back to the original post - I do think American men are being feminized. Being raised in a pretty traditional male/female household with definitive roles, I don't like to see my husband do dishes, laundry, etc. We both work full time and his chores are the more "manly" ones - garbage, repairs, outside work, etc. The plus side of the feminization is that men are more involved with children now. Back when I was a kid, dads rarely attended school events and the like because they were the sole bread winner and work came first since it was a man's duty to support his family. Companies have gotten more lenient with men's family/work balance and that's a good thing. More than being feminized, I think men are becoming more and more unvalued by women. It seems that many women forgo marriage all together but still start families. Some women don't even want good men involved in the child's life nor do they want child support. They just want the baby and for the man to "go away". Maybe it's because women are more independent or perhaps it's because many women were raised by single mothers? It just seems that men have lost much of their status in this country, and I suppose part of that can be do to their feminization, which I think is being done by women.

[silverwing]

Originally Posted by lisak64

Back to the original post - I do think American men are being feminized. Being raised in a pretty traditional male/female household with definitive roles, I don't like to see my husband do dishes, laundry, etc. We both work full time and his chores are the more "manly" ones - garbage, repairs, outside work, etc.

*puke*

That would mean I'd have to cook - something my mate would probably not appreciate since I so loathe the task we'd end up with Swanson's microwave meals. And our yard would look like a mess since all he thinks necessary is to keep the weeds to a minimum, while I like shrubs, trees and flowers.

You people .... <shakes head> to each their own ability and preference. If I prefer flinging cow manure with abandon over the flower beds so that I have a gorgeous garden; taking my John Deere tractor over the sweep of green acreage; and my spouse whips up a wonderful chicken cacciatore, what the hell BUSINESS is it to you? We're a happy, successful couple for following our own inclinations. And, FYI, he served with distinction in the Air Force back in the 60s, being one of the youngest men in his rank at that time. He doesn't flaunt his awards for merit or bravery; preferring to keep them in the office; but I believe he could be regarded as quite the manly-male.

People who are trying to enforce these gender roles make me sick It's all about CONTROL.

[silverwing]

Originally Posted by lilypad

Ugh, that would be difficult for me to find "exciting". Glad many of them threw off those wigs and donned buckskins and coonskin caps with rifle in hand to explore and take on the Wild West!!

Well, I do admit to getting swoony over an image like this
http://images.art.com/images/-/Daniel-Day-Lewis---Last-of-the-Mohicans--C10103887.jpeg (broken link)

but even back in the days of manly men who fought Indians and opened the west, fashion images reigned that would be considered metro today. Even Davy Crockett: he of the famed stand at the Alamo, well-known purveyor of the coonskin cap


I dunno, that cravat and silk waistcoat looks kinda twirly to me And *cough* he does have a sensitive look to his face.

Personally, I find people who live along specific gender lines and assume roles based on what the sensibilities of other dictate to be the damnedest, dullest people in existence. They never have interesting biographies written about them, either. Take the times of colonial settlements and westward expansion. When Daniel Boone was off "huntin' bar", fighting Indians, and carving a road across the Cumberland Gap, wife Rebecca was home, but not merely keeping house. She had to keep a growing brood of children (eventually numbering 10) alive. She was an adept hunter and didn't hesitate to take the plow to the fields. Neither was she an obedient wife who merely sat waiting for her hunter/explorer husband to return boasting of glories. Getting fed up with life in Kentucky, she gathered the kids and came back to North Carolina without Mr. Boone.

I take extreme offense at people dictating behavior based on narrow views. Life is complicated; no one person is the same as another. I don't see any weakness in that. I've had some of my own views rearranged while participating in a support program for soldiers in Iraq. Young people I thought weren't worth **** at home have made their families and town proud by how they faced battle and death (both men and women). I've learned that in ordinary situations people can bluster, twitterpate, and put their hands to their cheeks in a "heaven forfend!" view at the behavior of others, but they better be ready to take back that view if they ever have to depend on those people who have so offended their sensibilities.

[Vampgrrl]

No kidding. I certainly am glad some people in here aren't in charge of making laws.

I'm an individual before I am anything and it's up to me to decide how to utilize my skills and talents. Not, you=girl, so I must cook my man some food and pop kids out and that's all I'm good for, grunt grunt. :P

This thread reads like The Handmaid's Tale wannabes at points.
The Handmaid's Tale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[TnHilltopper]

Originally Posted by silverwing

*puke*

People who are trying to enforce these gender roles make me sick It's all about CONTROL.

I don't see anyone trying to "enforce" traditional gender roles here, merely people offering what they prefer. You differ from the poster you were responding to and that is great, in fact it is one of the things that makes this world of ours go around.

I'm an individual before I am anything and it's up to me to decide how to utilize my skills and talents. Not, you=girl, so I must cook my man some food and pop kids out and that's all I'm good for, grunt grunt. :P

Vamp, it is this stereotype that I believe has led to one sad aspect of society today in America.

Today, the homemaker, be it the woman or the man is a role that has been diminished and no longer gets the respect it deserves.

Managing a home, finances, ensuring the health and eating habits of a family, homework and managing children, shopping for all the supplies a home requires on a budget, etc... is much like managing a small company in which the individuals investment and commitment to this endeavor is usually directly proportionate to the success of the family as a whole.

The one thing from the feminist movement that I don't like is how the importance of this function or position has been written off as women broke free of the shackles of the "homemaker" in favor career. I think it is great that women have choices they never had and opportunities to pursue anything they like but to belittle such an important thing as managing a home or having children is not so cool.

With fewer children in families today, the role of raising children is not as great of a challenge as it once was when families had 3,4,5 + children and fewer conveniences, but it is still an important function all the same. Maybe men are picking up this role now as our society no longer has the same need for the typical masculine male that our history imparted on our genetics, I don't know. I do believe it does have an impact on our society today though.

[Rggr]

The whole point is that people should be allowed to be who they are naturally. What the op was pointing out is that if who you are naturally fits into the traditional male role, then there are forces that seek to limit that.

[Vampgrrl]

I don't think anyone is stating anything bad about the homemaker as a profession. Originally feminism is about choices for men and women both...(before it got mangled by NOW and the ilk).
I'm saying don't treat women as if biology dictates they need to push out babies and cook for their man because there is a biological drive to do so, and somehow those who aren't doing that are trying to be something that we aren't and are somehow in the wrong.

[Sailaway50]

Originally Posted by Rggr

The whole point is that people should be allowed to be who they are naturally. What the op was pointing out is that if who you are naturally fits into the traditional male role, then there are forces that seek to limit that.

This is truly getting back to the original point. I do believe there are forces in our society that do not support the traditional male role..which is not Fred Flinstone'esque. I feel the role of breadwinner, necessarily productive AND APPROPRIATE TO EACH PERSON'S ABILITIES AND STRENTH'S division of labor in a marriage/child rearing arrangement between both spouses/parents....these are positive, traditional roles. The "wimmen's movement"....the strident, hyped, denigrate the male, media driven one.....has been a huge rip off for women, by the way, who are trying to work 8-10 hour days, do errands, run a household, raise children (well and attentively), helpl with homework and manage the (ever becoming more unmanageable by the day) educational system, etc......so the "resentment" against men is actually wrongful projection.

Women are tired, overwhelmed and feel ripped off. But it's not by men. It is the exaggeration and distortion of the women's movement that has ripped women off. So many of us did not "buy into it"......there wasn't alot of choice unless you (is there one?) move to a community and assimilate into one that completely matches YOUR values. Where is that?

[Vampgrrl]

Well a lot of women work because they have to...I'm single and I'd almost prefer a DINK household because that's how the world is set up to work financially.

There are households where the woman is the breadwinner or brings a large percentage of income in over that of her husband. I've known of quite a few.

Again nothing wrong with traditional roles if a relationship is working and ok with that. I'ts just threatening when other people judge outside behaviors of other people. I've worked in IT/computers for quite some time and if I had a nickel for everytime I've been demeaned and ignored or bypassed in favor of a male coworker I could retire...because I don't get taken seriously. Everything I have achieved I've really had to fight for...and I don't regret doing so, I'm likely I better person because of it.

Again nothing wrong with traditional roles if it suits the marriage, but it shouldnt apply to everyone. Period.

[Who?Me?!]

TnHilltopper:"""The one thing from the feminist movement that I don't like is how the importance of this function or position has been written off as women broke free of the shackles of the "homemaker" in favor career. I think it is great that women have choices they never had and opportunities to pursue anything they like but to belittle such an important thing as managing a home or having children is not so cool.""


HOWEVER, SOME in here belittle MEN who want to do just that! IF it's SO important than why is it considered "bad" for a man to do it???????



AND the "Women's movement" has belittled the role of homemaker ???????????


Maybe some have but look at the sexists in here who belittle ANYTHING considered "feminine". Who think if a woman's a homemaker she needs a "head of the household", someone to guide the poor little thing !!!!! Who think women should behave themselves and stay home and cook and clean and have babies no matter what they really want!