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Old 02-21-2015, 08:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorel36 View Post
Is this supposed to be taken seriously. Western christian nations are the most violent, war mongers, genocidal nations ever known in human history. After being perpetually at war with each other, they took their rage on the world. Muslims did not exterminate the natives in north America, the aboriginal people of Australia, or 2/3 of the Jewish population of Europe. The scale of the massacres perpetrated and the war casualties was unprecedented. Let's not even talk about violence against natives in south America or against African Americans.
Yes, and it was all happy unicorns and fluffy bunnies floating on candy rainbows in the Americas, the Middle East, Africa and Asia when Europeans weren't in those places.

 
Old 02-21-2015, 08:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Popes were war monguers who claimed to be working on behalf of Christ. The Crudades were nothing more than politics and a failed land grab. Popes recruited Crusaders by forgiving their past, present and future sins.

The Crusaders raped, pillaged and robbed their way across Europe and parts of Asia and Northern Africa.
They targeted Jews and Muslims, alike. They targeted Europeans who opposed them. ISIS pales in comparison to the atrocities against mankind that the Crusaders perpetuated.

After 200 years the Crusades ended and the church retreated.

Obama's use of the Crusades was a tad goofy although it was spot on in terms of a distant historical analogy, global terrorists using religion as a tool to achieve outcomes that had nothing to do with religion and all to do with politics and power.

Most people have no concept of the Crusades and many, especially Catholics, seem to believe the Crusaders were the good guys who won the 200 year war against Muslims and Jews. Reality is the opposite.
When you say that most people have no concept of the Crusades, I would note that you are one of those people.
 
Old 02-21-2015, 08:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
When you say that most people have no concept of the Crusades, I would note that you are one of those people.
Instead of just personally attacking her, can you point out what was wrong and why?
 
Old 02-21-2015, 08:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grsz11 View Post
Instead of just personally attacking her, can you point out what was wrong and why?
I'm willing to do that with people who are interested in the truth.

She obviously is not.
 
Old 02-21-2015, 08:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
I'm willing to do that with people who are interested in the truth.

She obviously is not.
What's untrue about what she said?
 
Old 02-21-2015, 08:32 PM
 
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[quote=dechatelet;38542465]

Arabs were into slavery long before Europeans were and I hear some arabs are still into it.

Last edited by CaseyB; 02-21-2015 at 09:05 PM..
 
Old 02-21-2015, 08:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nickerman View Post
Arabs were into slavery long before Europeans were and I hear some arabs are still into it.
Some Americans and Europeans do too. So what's your point?

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/....1375922#bmb=1

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4466062
 
Old 02-21-2015, 08:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grsz11 View Post
What's untrue about what she said?
What she said was overly simplistic.

Here's a good source: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Crusades.

Before Rome fell, an eastern Roman Empire had been established in Constantinople, which became the center of the Byzantine Empire. Byzantium, which was Christian, extended over large parts of the middle east and was -- apart from war with Persia -- unchallenged until the rise of Islam. Long before Islam existed, Christians and Jews lived in the Holy Land, and preserved their relics in Jerusalem. Charlemagne established the Frankish Protectorate of Jerusalem in 800 A.D. Hakem, Fatimite Caliph of Egypt persecuted the Christians of Jerusalem starting in 1009. Long before that, Christians from Western Europe had been making pilgrimages to the Holy Land. Now they could no longer be assured of their safety or the safety of their holy places. In 1070, Turks began conquering the Christian Byzantine east. In the meantime, Muslim Moors had tried to conquer Western Europe and were only stopped at the Loire River in France and pushed back into Spain. It is a complicated story. Just saying that it was all about money and disregarding 1) the brutality and aggressive nature of Islam and 2) the fact that Islam didn't even exist when Christians and Jews lived in the Middle East is wrong.
 
Old 02-21-2015, 08:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grsz11 View Post
Legally sanctioned slavery vs. illegal slavery.

Apples and oranges.
 
Old 02-21-2015, 09:09 PM
 
3,555 posts, read 4,095,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
What she said was overly simplistic.

Here's a good source: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Crusades.

Before Rome fell, an eastern Roman Empire had been established in Constantinople, which became the center of the Byzantine Empire. Byzantium, which was Christian, extended over large parts of the middle east and was -- apart from war with Persia -- unchallenged until the rise of Islam. Long before Islam existed, Christians and Jews lived in the Holy Land, and preserved their relics in Jerusalem. Charlemagne established the Frankish Protectorate of Jerusalem in 800 A.D. Hakem, Fatimite Caliph of Egypt persecuted the Christians of Jerusalem starting in 1009. Long before that, Christians from Western Europe had been making pilgrimages to the Holy Land. Now they could no longer be assured of their safety or the safety of their holy places. In 1070, Turks began conquering the Christian Byzantine east. In the meantime, Muslim Moors had tried to conquer Western Europe and were only stopped at the Loire River in France and pushed back into Spain. It is a complicated story. Just saying that it was all about money and disregarding 1) the brutality and aggressive nature of Islam and 2) the fact that Islam didn't even exist when Christians and Jews lived in the Middle East is wrong.
The Catholic Encyclopedia? Lol, try again. Where did the Church's land in Europe come from?
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