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Answer: Because that is what it takes to hire and retain people with the skills they want. Supply and demand. However, this is not justification to tell McDonald's they need to pay burger flippers $15/hour. Different skill sets are worth different wages.
It says that McDonalds can afford to. In and Out Burger start their pay over $10.00hr and they are basically doing the same thing as McDonalds workers are doing.
You will see the irony after I get destroying the rest of your post.
We do not know the sales volume for 8 hours. It is stupid to pretend that volume is consistent like you are suggesting.
Sales volume. I put the off rush orders on my till. That is what I did. About $1k a day.
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Originally Posted by billydaman
This is why my example only demonstrated one hour.
Lunch rush. That doubled the amount of sales. This is based on my personal work history and memory. They kept the cost of labor down to about 20% of the cost of the food.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billydaman
This mistake in computation is what largely discredited the $.68 figure liberals love to point too.
Average at $2k per dayshift. Eight workers. If it is slow they send people home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billydaman
It also does not factor in decreased sales due to higher prices.
I worked in a mall that had an office complex in it. They workers ate lunch in the food court. If sales are off a bit hours drop to compensate.
The flip side of this argument is that it doesn't factor in any increase in sales because the workers have more disposable income to spend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billydaman
It also does not factor in the potential increase in cost from suppliers.
No it doesn't
Quote:
Originally Posted by billydaman
To be fair, it also does not factor in the increased efficiency you would get from hiring better workers.
No it doesn't
Quote:
Originally Posted by billydaman
The frustrating problem you and your cohorts have is you repeat stuff that you either hear or read and take it as the truth with out applying critical thought yourself and when someone like me shows you how its not the truth, you will not believe it and do your best to argue against reality.
Well that may be true of the others but my agenda is different than theirs. I am goal oriented. I have a disability that makes changing my life hard. Based on past experience I need to get 5 jobs in 6 weeks to go from being unemployed to being employed. My goal is to achieve a macroeconomic situation that is conducive to doing this. The starting point was 2009. I didn't see the oil bubble coming. Without that we largely wouldn't have had a recovery. The reason I say this is we are at debt saturation or very close to it. I'm more concerned about personal and corporate debt when I say this. I didn't see oil. With the cost of oil up they could get a loan against the oil in the ground drill it sell it and pay the loan. With out this what I figured you needed was a $30 an hr minimum wage and about $1 trillion in cash to everyone ($3k each) to keep the economy from imploding under the strain of the much higher minimum wage. Mint the cash as coins and deposit it at the FED. That way you get cash without more debt. This would've replaced the T-bills as our monetary base and increase it by 25% compared to 2008 levels. If this had been done along with the oil bubble we would be in good economic shape as we would've restructured our debts. The $3k figure is again from my personal work history a I saw what that level of additional economic stimulus had on my macro economic situation.
A different way of saying the minimum wage is this.
If it isn't worth what ever an hour it isn't worth doing in the US.
We have close to $60 trillion in total debt. That is government, personal and corporate debt. You can do the math on how much everyone needs to be making to service this debt at various interest levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by billydaman
I do not believe for a minute that you will accept that your example is extraordinarily poor and inaccurate, you will continue to defend it because you cant accept that you've been misled.
My example is from my personal work history. So I would think that you are the one that has been misled.
Sales volume. I put the off rush orders on my till. That is what I did. About $1k a day.
Lunch rush. That doubled the amount of sales. This is based on my personal work history and memory. They kept the cost of labor down to about 20% of the cost of the food.
Average at $2k per dayshift. Eight workers. If it is slow they send people home.
I worked in a mall that had an office complex in it. They workers ate lunch in the food court. If sales are off a bit hours drop to compensate.
The flip side of this argument is that it doesn't factor in any increase in sales because the workers have more disposable income to spend.
No it doesn't
No it doesn't
Well that may be true of the others but my agenda is different than theirs. I am goal oriented. I have a disability that makes changing my life hard. Based on past experience I need to get 5 jobs in 6 weeks to go from being unemployed to being employed. My goal is to achieve a macroeconomic situation that is conducive to doing this. The starting point was 2009. I didn't see the oil bubble coming. Without that we largely wouldn't have had a recovery. The reason I say this is we are at debt saturation or very close to it. I'm more concerned about personal and corporate debt when I say this. I didn't see oil. With the cost of oil up they could get a loan against the oil in the ground drill it sell it and pay the loan. With out this what I figured you needed was a $30 an hr minimum wage and about $1 trillion in cash to everyone ($3k each) to keep the economy from imploding under the strain of the much higher minimum wage. Mint the cash as coins and deposit it at the FED. That way you get cash without more debt. This would've replaced the T-bills as our monetary base and increase it by 25% compared to 2008 levels. If this had been done along with the oil bubble we would be in good economic shape as we would've restructured our debts. The $3k figure is again from my personal work history a I saw what that level of additional economic stimulus had on my macro economic situation.
A different way of saying the minimum wage is this.
If it isn't worth what ever an hour it isn't worth doing in the US.
We have close to $60 trillion in total debt. That is government, personal and corporate debt. You can do the math on how much everyone needs to be making to service this debt at various interest levels.
My example is from my personal work history. So I would think that you are the one that has been misled.
I could spend the time to write about how incorrect you are but it occurs to me you are unwilling or incapable of accepting the objective truth.
The issues is not the results, well they are because they are invalid but the real issue is with the process you get the results from to which you refuse to engage on...I'm not insane, I do not repeat the same thing over and over again hoping for different results, you are more concerned with invalid results that agree with what you think and you refute everything else. I could be convinced of the minimum wage if sound, objective and reasonable evidence is submitted but in all my discussions every study, explanation and augment has proven to be invalid. Every invalid argument you and your fellow proponents have made, I've seen before. You like what it says so you repeat thinking it gives credibility to your argument.
Two main minimum wage arguments people make are:
Stimulates economic growth.
The broken window fallacy disproves this argument completely.
Makes life better off:
There is no objective and thoroughly studied empirical evidence that says as a whole its a net-benefit for low-wage earners, much less society in general.
Last edited by billydaman; 03-02-2015 at 04:14 PM..
The issues is not the results, well they are because they are invalid but the real issue is with the process you get the results from to which you refuse to engage on...I'm not insane, I do not repeat the same thing over and over again hoping for different results, you are more concerned with invalid results that agree with what you think and you refute everything else. I could be convinced of the minimum wage if sound, objective and reasonable evidence is submitted but in all my discussions every study, explanation and augment has proven to be invalid. Every invalid argument you and your fellow proponents have made, I've seen before. You like what it says so you repeat thinking it gives credibility to your argument.
Two main minimum wage arguments people make are:
Stimulates economic growth.
The broken window fallacy disproves this argument completely.
Makes life better off:
There is no objective and thoroughly studied empirical evidence that says as a whole its a net-benefit for low-wage earners, much less society in general.
I have a third argument. It can be used to rebalance debt to income in the economy as a whole.
In my opinion what came out of WWII that set up the post WWII economic boom was a clearing of the prewar debts. Before the war we were on the gold standard. We were the leading manufacturer and exporter of consumer goods and the leading exporter of oil. We traded things that needed replacing for things that didn't. When "all the gold" came to the US the world's economy ground to a halt. This is a vast oversimplification but there is a bit of truth to it.
We are in the position now in the world that there is an accumulation of debts. This accumulation of debts needs to be wiped away.
One way is to let the loans fail and the banks along with it. This will clear out the build up of debts but at the cost of high unemployment and hardship as we do it. If we just crank the minimum wage on the other hand we can use cost push inflation to clear the debts out and do it at something like full employment. I see this as the less painful of the two options.
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