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You really are dense. Go Google Conscientious Objectors. Go Google Amish not subject to SSI laws.
The 1st Amendment protects a person's religious freedoms over laws that infringe those freedoms. Which the WA State law does.
The Amish are granted an exemption from participating in Social Security because they agree not to claim benefits and have an alternative system in place. In essence, they do not need it. That they take care of their own elderly and disabled is the basis for the exemption, not a religious objection to Social Security.
It shall be an unfair practice for any person or the person's agent or employee to commit an act which directly or indirectly results in any distinction, restriction, or discrimination, or the requiring of any person to pay a larger sum than the uniform rates charged other persons, or the refusing or withholding from any person the admission, patronage, custom, presence, frequenting, dwelling, staying, or lodging in any place of public resort, accommodation, assemblage, or amusement, except for conditions and limitations established by law and applicable to all persons, regardless of race, creed, color, national origin, sexual orientation, sex...
Any business owner who says "it's my business, I can refuse whoever I want" is only partially correct. You can:
Refuse everyone
Refuse no one
Refuse everyone not wearing a shirt, health risk, drives away customers
Refuse everyone not wearing pants, health risk, drives away customers
Refuse customers who try to bring non-service dogs in, health risk, danger to customers
Refuse customers that stink. Could be a health risk and drives away customers in any case
Refuse customers with weapons, security risk
Refuse loiterers, security risk and drives away customers
In other words, you can refuse people - you just can't do it for a reason that doesn't make sense, i.e. "you're white, get out" or "you're gay, get out" or "you're a female, get out" or whatever.
Interesting. That means that raising the price to discourage someone from using a service is not allowed.
Last edited by suzy_q2010; 02-27-2015 at 03:10 PM..
Religion was her reason, but the main question is if all businesses should be forced to do business with those they'd rather not.
Indeed, it does boil down to that question. My answer is that businesses can and should be compelled to serve all because there is no legitimate reason for them to do otherwise.
Some claim it restricts their freedom to have to serve African Americans, Hispanics, gays, women, men, or any other group or minority. I say that's nonsense. Businesses make the most money when they serve the most customers. Any alleged "freedom" that is being infringed here is a "phony freedom". Its not real, it just feeds someone's internal desire to hate and it ought to be discouraged.
States have the power to pass virtually any law they choose that prohibits discrimination against any group within their borders. The federal government has the power to prohibit discrimination under the commerce clause of the Constitution and possibly under the last section of the Fourteenth Amendment which allows them to enforce the amendment through appropriate legislation. People can claim otherwise, but court decisions support that point of view, particularly when the legislation is enacted under Congress's power to regulate interstate commerce. Court decisions have extended that power to some pretty small businesses. One supreme court case that makes interesting reading is Katzenbach v. McClung, 379 US 274 (1964) Here, the business was a local restaurant and the court said even though it was small it still fell under the scope of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
I suppose part of my view boils down to the fact that I think many people view a problem like this incorrectly. A case like this is not about a business or business owner's "right" to do business. Its about the people setting the conditions through which businesses are allowed to operate. The people do this through the state legislature or through Congress. If someone wants to be in business, they are required to abide by the laws that are established. If you don't abide by the laws, you have no right to be in business.
There is also some balancing involved. Even if I were to concede that a business owner's liberty was impaired in some remote way by having to serve a group of people that he hates or dislikes, I'd still say that his interest is outweighed by that of his customers in being able to patronize any business that they choose. In fact, I'd say that is true even in the case of businesses selling non-essential services or goods.
Bottom line: There is no constitutional right to be in business. There is only the right to operate a business given to you by the people through their elected representatives.
Religion was her reason, but the main question is if all businesses should be forced to do business with those they'd rather not.
Your point of view valid
but you need to keep in mind the long history of discrimination in this country
That's the reason why we have those laws.
I'm sure any black senior citizen could spend a couple of days telling you about all the times they were refused service in a restaurant, hotel, gas station, grocery store, cinema, etc, etc, etc.
Indeed, it does boil down to that question. My answer is that businesses can and should be compelled to serve all because there is no legitimate reason for them to do otherwise.
Sure there is a reason, the government should not have the power to decide with who you choose to associate.
What purpose does it server to force non-essential businesses to associate with everyone?
Your point of view valid
but you need to keep in mind the long history of discrimination in this country
That's the reason why we have those laws.
I'm sure any black senior citizen could spend a couple of days telling you about all the times they were refused service in a restaurant, hotel, gas station, grocery store, cinema, etc, etc, etc.
I'm sure any black senior citizen could spend a couple of days telling you about all the times they were called names, not invited to social events and not allowed to play with white children. Does that mean we should require every white person to have black friends?
STATE courts. The Supreme Court is the arbiter of Constitutionality.
Right, you are advocating that people should find creative ways to break laws instead of standing by their values.
Hey everyone, forget morality and right and wrong, just figure out how to pull an OJ on all those laws you don't like.
Wonderful!
Those owners can stand by their values, and continue to get clobbered in courts. They can stop serving all weddings as a hotel in Vermont did. They can cave-in and agree to serve all weddings. 4th, they can use their brains or pray for ways to refuse service without either violating their conscience or so obviously breaking the law by stating the won't serve gay weddings.
Or they can believe in your legal wishful thinking and hope a Supreme Court decision goes their way while their business and savings go down the drain.
Last edited by jazzarama; 02-27-2015 at 03:51 PM..
Once again, and staying on topic, no non-essential business should be forced to have any customers they choose not to do business.
What would be considered an essential business? Hospitals of course, maybe grocery stores, possible gas stations. What about restaurants?
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