Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I suspect there are other skeletons in the closet, which we all have. But if you are going to point fingers at others its so much worse when your own secrets come out.
The bigger apology should be for promoting overpopulation and shunning birth control on this overcrowded planet with a 78 million annual net gain of humans who are slowly pillaging nature to death. The fact that he got tempted by teen girls (not uncommon) pales in comparison to the whole Quiverfull attitude that ignores carrying-capacity and resource scarcity.
Then again, most people still behave as if the Earth has no limits so the Duggars are just showcasing human gluttony.
Come on...do people really want this family to actually suffer? I am the first in line to shut off the show, have Josh's children looked out for and uncover what else is there in sake of the kids. But to watch them "crash and burn" and suffer...no. This has to be a seriously painful time for all of them, especially the victims.
I agree, HighFlyingBird. I'm going to keep posting and contacting TLC until they cut the Umbilical Cord. Then this whole mess, all the lying to viewers, the locals and worst of all their family, they will have time to deal with. I agree this is a painful time for most of them, certainly the kids. The parents have so many friends who have had affairs or abused children sexually, Gothard and someone else, I honestly don't know how much pain they feel. Their pain may have been at getting caught in their lies as JB won't be successful running for Congress again.
I've read Michael See Wald ' s comments (Ben ' s dad). While he does say they didn't report this quickly enough for some people, a lot of his blog post is about female victims and making sure no one touched them inappropriately, and to keep telling adults until someone listened and did something to protect them.
Ben had a fascinating post this week. I'll see if I can still find it. He ignores his in-laws and praises his parents for raising their son's and daughters in a safe home.
I saw a brief quote today from the Bates (a week after this broke). They said they were praying for them, nothing else. The Bates girls have slept in that home many times. This has got to be hard for the Bates to hear.
This family needs the cameras off so they can deal with all that has occurred.
Location: land of quail, bunnies, and red tail hawks
1,513 posts, read 3,387,379 times
Reputation: 3539
As a childhood victim of molestation worse than what the police report shows Josh Duggar did, I'm going to disagree with those screaming that the victims will face horrendous lifetime effects. I certainly haven't let a couple of incidents scar me for life.
According to the victim and witness statements, the fondling was a one-time incident, while both the child and Josh were fully clothed and the clothing was a barrier. (This negates those who are arguing that there was vaginal penetration.) There was one incident of a shirt being pulled up, and another of a skirt being pulled up, but those incidents were not fully described in the witness statements, so it's difficult to say exactly what occurred then.
Three years after the incidents, the victims said there had been no repeat offenses. Some had fuzzy memories, likely because they were young and time is a great healer. A couple of the victims seemed unaware that they had actually been molested. One was because she had been asleep and the only thing she remembered was Josh removing a blanket; it's unclear why the other one or two were unaware. They all claimed to feel safe in the home. Only one specifically said she didn't trust Josh anymore.
Josh's offenses were relatively minor in terms of sexual molestation. (That doesn't mean I condone what he did. He was wrong. Period.) Clothing was a barrier. Several of the victims indicated it was a one time occurrence. It's difficult to say about the others, but there is nothing in the police report that indicates this was an ongoing, daily occurrence that some here like to suggest. It also sounds like the parents (once they were aware of what had happened initially) had talks with all of their children about appropriate and inappropriate touch, and when it happened later, the child knew to report it to her parents. We're not privy to what precautions and talks may or may not have occurred before the molestation became known.
All this publicity, public condemnation, and embellishment of the facts is more likely to have far more damaging consequences than what originally occurred. Based on the victim statements, the girls were well on their way to recovery and getting on with leading normal lives. They felt secure in their homes, and they felt their parents had taken steps to protect them. They were apparently never made to feel like the perpetual victims their naysayers insist they must be. From my personal experience, I will agree that they aren't perpetual victims. My parents never knew what happened to me, so they were unable to counsel me appropriately. Yet, I survived, put the incidents past me while learning how to recognize perverts and protect myself and others from them, and moved on with my life. Despite what many will claim for me, I do not have lasting scars, and I rarely ever think about the couple of incidents in my own life.
-------
Many here are claiming that Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar have covered up this incident. They also claim that Jim Bob never took Josh to the police department. They claim the Duggars took him to a family friend who only gave him a stern talking to. That's not what the police report indicates. The report says the family handled the incidents internally after the initial occurrences. When another incident occurred a year later, the family took the issue before the church elders who recommended a treatment facility which Jim Bob thought was affiliated with a police department since it shared facilities with one. The elders were wary of state-sponsored juvenile detention facilities that have long been seen as "finishing schools" and training centers for more hardened youth. The chosen treatment center provided four months of hard manual labor while providing counseling from an uncertified individual/s. (Personal opinion -- effective counseling doesn't necessarily have to come from a certified individual. Some certified therapists actually exacerbate the problem.) After the four months were up, the elders thought the incidents needed to be reported to the police.
Jim Bob took Josh to the police headquarters, where he asked to speak to an officer he knew professionally through his business as a car dealer. There's no indication this was a close personal friend. Since this man was currently still employed as a police officer, there's no reason to believe Jim Bob had any knowledge of the officer's possession of child pornography. Since Josh had already completed a treatment program, the officer chose not to pursue charges but chose to give Josh a stern lecture. Police and DAs have rather broad discretionary judgment regarding cases to pursue. Apparently, the officer was satisfied with the steps the Duggars had undertaken to correct the problem.
So, the Duggar parents didn't cover up the incident. The path they took actually made more people aware of the situation. If they had only gone to the police, there would have been no need to involve members of the church. Instead, the Duggars chose what they perceived as wise counsel and accountability, and they followed advice. There was no need for them to shout a juvenile son's indiscretions from the public rooftop. This protected both their son and their daughters.
While I believe the Duggars were unwise to put their family in the public eye after these incidents, they were not obligated to air their dirty laundry publicly. If they had some kind of morality clause with TLC, that's between them and the station. I seriously doubt that any of the people accusing the Duggars of a cover up would have acted any differently if their own families had been through something similar. In fact, many parents cover up much worse offenses their children commit, up to and including murder. Even worse, such parents even excuse abhorrent behavior. The Duggars didn't cover up their son's actions, and they acknowledge he was wrong.
Some here seem to think that the Duggars should have turned over Josh when the police requested an interview. I doubt that any attorney would agree. Standard legal advice is to always have an attorney present during questioning, whether one is a suspect, a victim, or a witness. The police don't like that advice and claim you don't need representation if you're innocent, but the courts disagree. The Duggars presented their daughters for questioning; there is no indication an attorney was present for their interviews. Furthermore, the female investigator questioning the girls displayed actions that indicated she was properly trained to question sexual assault victims, so she surely knew what signs to look to determine if the girls were still in danger. There is nothing in the report to indicate the investigator was concerned. The Duggars were well within their rights to keep Josh from police questioning without the presence of an attorney.
Some here also think Jim Bob Duggar is a mastermind of criminal deceit by being a member of the legislature and knowingly stalling the process until the statute of limitations had elapsed. First, that's giving a lot of credit to legislators, considering we have members of Congress that can't accurately identify the three branches of government let alone accurately apply legal statutes (even when they're lawyers). Second, the statute of limitations had already passed before the investigation started. The police were doing due diligence to ensure the daughters were no longer in danger, but it is doubtful they could have done anything to Josh other than give him another stern lecture.
-------
What I find telling is the deliberate distortion of the facts presented throughout this thread. That says far more about thread participants than any of the faux outrage designed to deliberately discredit the Duggars, the Family Research Council, or the politicians with whom Josh Duggar has been photographed. In fact, there is no reason for news outlets to include such pictures in the coverage other than to create guilt by association. There is no reason to believe the FRC or any politician was privy to the private lives of the Duggars, nor for them to have access to the records regarding a juvenile offense. The fact that this juvenile record has come to light shows there is something rotten in the state of Denmark.
I think it's totally relevant that people would object to a juvenile sex offender being a star on a family/children oriented show.
Pee Wee Herman's show for example was yanked way back when because of a lewd offense he committed off the set. Honey Boo Boo also got yanked from TLC because her mom was dating a sex offender.
From my point of view you're using guilt by association - as in you're assuming anyone objecting to Josh being on the show simply has a bone to pick with religion or Christian fundamentalists.
You're comparing the act of a 14 yr old child (done 10 years ago) to that of adults?
The mere hypocrisy could have something to do with it as well - seeing as the show's cast are allegedly promoting "family values", knowing all the while what Josh did.
Seems like a case of creating false dilemma.
Can one not promote family values while having a child that does something which opposes family values?
It's as though some people feel that others should simply drop everything they believe once a relative does something that opposes their briefs. Take that to its logical conclusion....
Last edited by eddiehaskell; 05-29-2015 at 02:04 AM..
Not at all - but if you found out that a star of a reality show was charged with attempted murder at age 14, would you want him staring on a "family-oriented show"?
14 isn't exactly 7 either - in some states a 14 year old is old enough to marry with parental consent.
If this person is rehibilated, worked through their issues and is currently in a healthy state of mind - I wouldn't care what kind of show they're involved with. Some folks are less perfect than others, but no one is perfect. Should people wear scarlet letters for every act committed as teen or by someone in their family?
From my point of view you're using guilt by association - as in you're assuming anyone objecting to Josh being on the show simply has a bone to pick with religion or Christian fundamentalists.
No, I will not assume that. I'm not going to be like the people here that assume that anyone here that doesn't join with the same reaction of scorched earth on the family is somehow condoning the actual acts that took place. That is a actual consistent theme on this thread. Not what you just suggested.
But there are a lot of posters on this thread that sure make it undistinguished between if they actual care more about the incident than burning this family as far as they can. Should we lay out the quotes from just the last few pages?
Many of the positions on this thread has a lot to with hatred of their beliefs as much as it does with what has actually happened.
How about the last two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptimusPrime69 I am LOVING the fact I get to see this family crash and burn... lol
LOVE it
Quote:
The bigger apology should be for promoting overpopulation and shunning birth control on this overcrowded planet with a 78 million annual net gain of humans who are slowly pillaging nature to death. The fact that he got tempted by teen girls (not uncommon) pales in comparison to the whole Quiverfull attitude that ignores carrying-capacity and resource scarcity.
There is a long list of gleeful people on this thread that seem to care more about their destruction than actually what happened with this 14 year old and his siblings.
Why do Republicans want to die on this hill? Gross.
It's only some reality TV family. Why defend this sexual predator so vehemently?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
