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If he had Hib, how would skipping the Hib vaccine NOT have contributed to his death?
Btw, Miss Sensitivity, I was not addressing YOU with the "Info is your friend" comment. I meant having the info on the offending organism is your friend at battling it. Not all viruses are the same and we actually use antivirals for some.
By your crazy logic (and do feel free to take this personally), if my kid dies bc I beat and starve him, I shouldn't be punished...bc his death was enough punishment.
People fail to see that neglect is abuse.
These people should lose all their kids.
Stan, They did not conclude that the boy had HIB. The experts in the case disagreed on whether it was bacterial or viral. We simply don't know if the HIB vaccine would have saved his life. The parents didn't beat and starve their child. That is a terrible analogy. They were overall very loving and attentive parents but they did not take him to the doctor soon enough and that is what the jury found them guilty of.
If they didn't vaccinate for N.Men, Hib, or StrP...then the meningitis WAS lack-of-vaccine related.
But that's not the point, though.
NO ONE. NO ONE should ever say, "I think it's just viral meningitis." NO ONE EVER. You do a tap and that is literally the only way to tell.
These people's ignorance and lack of respect for the diseases that used to ravage mankind stems from living in a clueless nicey-nice world that exists BECAUSE of vaccines.
And btw, not all viral meningitis is the same. Information is your friend.
The positive test for Hib is in the autopsy report. The father of the child is actually the one who released the information. The defense tried to discredit the results because the test is not yet in general clinical use and might be "too sensitive."
The treating physician thought it was bacterial, too.
The only "expert" who disagrees is the ex medical examiner who is suing her former employer for five million Canadian dollars. She states the cause of death was asphyxia because the EMTs had problems getting an airway due to lack of the proper pediatric equipment. The ex-ME sorta ignored the fact that the child's mother had been doing CPR for ten minutes before the ambulance got to the baby. The EMTs must have been getting oxygen to him because they got his heart started again.
so? a lot of non and select vaxers know which Peds to see because this kind wont see our children. Nothing new with your meme you posted
Not with vaccines because ALL states have exemptions. Try again.
In your opinion.
In CA, MS and W Va the only exeptions are medical. W Va is really strict about their medical exemptions; they have to be reviewed. CA will just take the word of the doctor. Not sure about MS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyndarn
@jojajn..TY for your efforts in defending vaccines. But what has actually been exposed a total lack of how immunity system actually works.
For example newborns IF beats fed..gain some immunity due to mom's contributions..Bottle fed..Not so much.. Not vaccinating will expose any child to whatever they happened to come into contact in so many ways!! >airborn via sneeze/cough/touch contact ..which means anywhere out in society exposes if infected child is ambulatory!
BUT as you said..The parent's in this case were notified of seriousness and path of treatment necessary. IF they had gone to MD..and child still died..THEY would NOT have been found guilty at all!!
I'm sure this below link has been posted many times..but just thought I would point out how all the arguments have been dispelled .. But some people are so paranoid and cling to such extreme efforts to preach mis-information to justify it!! .. I think Michelle Bachman is a prime example of just how an elected official can feed fears with her lies..instead of preaching the TRUTHES! Not ALL can be vaccinated due to medical issues..THAT should be the ONLY reason IMO!!
Breast feeding does not provide much immunity at all to the baby. Most anitbodies in breast milk prevent GI illnesses. Placental immunity will provide some very short term immunity to diseases the mother has had or to which she has been vaccinated. http://thescientificparent.org/passi...-getting-sick/
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
Reading is your friend as well. Review my post in its entirety. I specifically stated, I felt they should have taken the child in to a medical facility as soon as possible due to the age of the child/baby. Also in another response I noted I did think it was realted to Hib but it is not certain that this is what caused the baby's death. I do think if they would have taken the baby to the ER within 24 hours that he would still be alive but I also don't think that the lack of vaccination in particular is what caused his death. And I do feel that the death of a child is punishment enough.
The parents waited until the child was clinically dead to seek out conventional medical care. the child had been sick for about two weeks, getting a little better, but as far as I can tell and I've read a lot about it, not totally better, then getting sick again. He had to be fed with an eyedropper. He was so still he couldn't be placed in his car seat. Yet still the parents waited until he stopped breathing to seek medical attention.
The positive test for Hib is in the autopsy report. The father of the child is actually the one who released the information. The defense tried to discredit the results because the test is not yet in general clinical use and might be "too sensitive."
Show us the autopsy report. What you are saying is not true. No matter how many times you repeat it, it will never be true.
Quote:
The treating physician thought it was bacterial, too.
"thought" exactly. It was not even confirmed bacterial, much less confirmed to be HIB.
Quote:
The only "expert" who disagrees is the ex medical examiner who is suing her former employer for five million Canadian dollars. She states the cause of death was asphyxia because the EMTs had problems getting an airway due to lack of the proper pediatric equipment. The ex-ME sorta ignored the fact that the child's mother had been doing CPR for ten minutes before the ambulance got to the baby. The EMTs must have been getting oxygen to him because they got his heart started again.
Why do you put expert in quotation marks? The expert was the former chief medical examiner who had a stellar performance record. Her contract was not renewed because she blew the whistle and refused to go along with systemic corruption that was going on in her office.
Show us the autopsy report. What you are saying is not true. No matter how many times you repeat it, it will never be true.
"thought" exactly. It was not even confirmed bacterial, much less confirmed to be HIB.
Why do you put expert in quotation marks? The expert was the former chief medical examiner who had a stellar performance record. Her contract was not renewed because she blew the whistle and refused to go along with systemic corruption that was going on in her office.
"Autopsy reports often don’t use clear, declaratory language because they are based on science-based medicine and have to recognize the limitations of their techniques. . . . What I see, even in the parents’ highly biased presentation, is a conclusion that the child probably had haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) meningitis and pneumonia."
As has been pointed out, Ezekiel received antibiotics prior to death, so identifying the exact bacteria would be difficult. Unfortunately, health care providers don't speculate and use inflammatory language like anti-vaxers do, so their reports look less definitive, even though they're more accurate.
Here's another very much to the point statement: https://reportca.net/2016/03/autopsy...ner-testifies/ "Thursday, Dr. Bamidele Adeagbo testified he performed the autopsy on March 19, 2012 and determined the cause of death to be bacterial meningitis and empyema, an infection of the lungs."
"Autopsy reports often don’t use clear, declaratory language because they are based on science-based medicine and have to recognize the limitations of their techniques. . . . What I see, even in the parents’ highly biased presentation, is a conclusion that the child probably had haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) meningitis and pneumonia."
As has been pointed out, Ezekiel received antibiotics prior to death, so identifying the exact bacteria would be difficult. Unfortunately, health care providers don't speculate and use inflammatory language like anti-vaxers do, so their reports look less definitive, even though they're more accurate.
Here's another very much to the point statement: https://reportca.net/2016/03/autopsy...ner-testifies/ "Thursday, Dr. Bamidele Adeagbo testified he performed the autopsy on March 19, 2012 and determined the cause of death to be bacterial meningitis and empyema, an infection of the lungs."
Not much doubt there.
Respectful Insolence is not a valid or a trustworthy source. But even they say, "probably" in regards to the diagnosis of HIB which is far from confirmed. Another expert who was at one time, the ME's boss (the former chief ME) disagreed with the diagnosis of Bacterial Meningitis based on the autopsy report. If it can't even be confirmed that it was or was not bacterial meningitis then it can not be confirmed that it was the HIB strain. I know that some people are desperate to make this about vaccines, but it's not.
Quote:
When she reviewed the medical examiner's tissue slides in the Calgary office, she found an x-ray that had not been disclosed to the Defense counsel. It was taken of Ezekiel's lungs on March 13, 2012, the night he was brought by ambulance into the Cardston Hospital. It shows no pneumonia or pleural empyema.
Quote:
Dr. Sauvageau explained that it is quite common when emergency intubation occurs, stomach contents aspirate into the lungs, causing infection. This infection is what caused the empyema on the outside of the right lower lobe. She also viewed the slides of the tissue samples of the lungs and found giant white blood cells which had been consuming the food contents of the lungs. While the empyema did exist, it did not develop until after Ezekiel was intubated in the care of the physicians. He did not stop breathing because of empyema, as Adeagbo reported, because he had no empyema before intubation. Dr. Sauvageau testified that empyema is rarely fatal, and only after months and years of encrusted buildup.
Quote:
Another posit of Dr. Adeagbo is that the brain swelling from bacteria meningitis was sufficient to cause the brain stem to be compressed, stopping Ezekiel's heart and breathing. "Wrong", said Dr. Sauvageau. Adeagbo's own autopsy report shows no brain herniation. The CT Scan and its report show no tonsillar herniation compressing the brain stem. Also, Ezekiel's anterior fontanelle is still open and any brain swelling would have created a bulging fontanelle. This was not noted in any of the medical reports before and after the autopsy. Dr. Sauvageau examined the autopsy pictures and saw no herniation.
The prosecution's expert witness works for the same office that the former chief blew the whistle on for corruption. Among her serious accusations were complaints that politicians were interfering in the results of death investigations and changing causes of death for inmates and children in group homes.
Respectful Insolence is not a valid or a trustworthy source. But even they say, "probably" in regards to the diagnosis of HIB which is far from confirmed. Another expert who was at one time, the ME's boss (the former chief ME) disagreed with the diagnosis of Bacterial Meningitis based on the autopsy report. If it can't even be confirmed that it was or was not bacterial meningitis then it can not be confirmed that it was the HIB strain. I know that some people are desperate to make this about vaccines, but it's not.
The prosecution's expert witness works for the same office that the former chief blew the whistle on for corruption. Among her serious accusations were complaints that politicians were interfering in the results of death investigations and changing causes of death for inmates and children in group homes.
There is a lot of room for doubt.
And you think Tomljenovic is! LOL! I thought you'd like that article because he didn't say, "this is it, beyond the shadow of a doubt". You've been told many times that the antibiotics administered to Ezekiel made it difficult to do a bacterial culture.
I'm not "desperate" to make this issue about vaccines, you apparently haven't read my other posts on other threads. The time to vaccinate was long past. Not age wise, but because the kid was sick. One source I looked at said that "failure to provide the necessaries of life" is the US equivalent of manslaughter. That's what the parents were being tried for. They waited until the child was clinically dead to seek medical attention.
I thought the parents' expert witness had been fired? Anyway, the parents hired her to dispute the prosecution. That's apparently the Canadian way, just like it's the American way. Our legal system is based on that of English common law.
I support the parents. OP obviously isn't familiar with the argument against injecting poisons into children and the possible outcomes. I have seen it in more than one child and know what the results look like.
everything you injest is somewhat of a poison. No matter what the medicine is. Foods to Aspirin. You take it.
But, if you think a vaccine is so bad, then dont take it and leave this country.
If someone refuses a vaccine known to kill off a disease, then contracts it, and comes to my kids school with it, someone is going to pay dearly.
So, share your real world experiences to us all here in the USA. Please tell us of these horrific poisons that killed or harmed kids. Waiting.
Respectful Insolence is not a valid or a trustworthy source. But even they say, "probably" in regards to the diagnosis of HIB which is far from confirmed. Another expert who was at one time, the ME's boss (the former chief ME) disagreed with the diagnosis of Bacterial Meningitis based on the autopsy report. If it can't even be confirmed that it was or was not bacterial meningitis then it can not be confirmed that it was the HIB strain. I know that some people are desperate to make this about vaccines, but it's not.
The ME's boss disagreed based on what?
Could you please cite your sources?
I can't find any that don't say the child did not have bacterial meningitis.
Think about it for a second:
A spinal tap is easy to take.
Was there bacterial meningitis or not?
Why is this such a mystery?
Quote:
The prosecution's expert witness works for the same office that the former chief blew the whistle on for corruption. Among her serious accusations were complaints that politicians were interfering in the results of death investigations and changing causes of death for inmates and children in group homes.
There is a lot of room for doubt.
Which has what to do with with the expert witness?
This child wasn't an inmate and didn't live in a group home.
Your boss goes to jail for embezzlement, that means you can never be trusted again?
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Not ALL can be vaccinated due to medical issues..THAT should be the ONLY reason IMO!! 
