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I posted that link upthread. MissTerri didn't like it. I also posted this one Autopsy confirmed 18-month-old Alberta boy died of meningitis, medical examiner testifies | Globalnews.ca, from a Canadian news source, which says "Earlier Thursday, Adeagbo testified he performed the autopsy on March 19, 2012 and determined the cause of death to be bacterial meningitis and empyema, an infection of the lungs." I just checked and I posted this very quote.
Here's the doctor's report: http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...482/Scan-1.pdf "His working diagnosis is bacterial meningitis and he has been on treatment for this since his presentation to Cardston. The diagnosis has not been confirmed by lumbar puncture as he has been too unstable to undergo this procedure."
Katarina, I've read all of those links before, including the physician's report. There is nothing at all in any of them that state that the boy had HIB which you must know is one specific type of bacterial meningitis (and the only one that is VPD). Their opinion was that he had bacterial meningitis but no specific type was named. So if people are going to claim that it was confirmed HIB then they need to provide a source that it was HIB.
"As they tried to put the pieces of their lives back together again, they received a copy of their son’s autopsy report 8 months after his death. Instead of a definitive answer to the cause of death, the report listed an “opinion,” with a heavy emphasis on the fact that Ezekiel was not immunized. The opinion was that he died from bacterial meningitis and an infection in his right lung. According to “a non-clinical research methodology,” haemophilus influenzae bacteria was identified in his body, but the particular strain was not cultured or identified."
We know that the culture was not done because Ezekiel was close to death and too fragile for a spinal tap. In unvaccinated children, 95% of hemophilus influenzae infections are type B.
As Katarina told you, the admitting doctor's working diagnosis was bacterial meningitis and the ME who did the autopsy diagnosed bacterial meningitis. Viral meningitis seldom has a fatal course. All you have to support your opinion is an ex-ME whose contract was not renewed (the same as being fired for people who have contracts) and a mother who used Google to diagnose viral meningitis. The ex-ME blames the EMTs (who essentially resurrected the child from the dead) for causing the child's pneumonia, symptoms of which had been present for over two weeks, and for killing him by failing to maintain an airway. Since the EMTs managed to restore circulation, they had to have been able to ventilate the baby. The heart cannot work without oxygen. The ex-ME was obviously trying to use this case to bolster her suit against the ME's office. It backfired; the jury did not believe her. Now she has taken a stance on a case with a lot of public exposure that just makes her look incompetent, no matter whether her complaints against the ME's office have merit or not - and they very well might be meritorious.
The test result reported at autopsy and the clinical course are compatible with Hib, for which Ezekiel was not vaccinated.
There is a saying in medicine: when you hear hoof beats on the bridge, look for horses, not zebras. The most common things should be thought of first. Bacterial meningitis is about 100 times more likely to cause the clinical picture of Ezekiel's illness than viral meningitis, and with hemophilus influenzae present at autopsy, the most common type would be B.
Even if the meningitis were due to a different type than B, antibiotic treatment when his symptoms lasted more than a few days would probably have prevented the meningitis and saved his life.
Save herbs for cooking and the maple syrup for pancakes, waffles, and French toast.
There is absolutely no scientific evidence to support that statement; in fact, vaccines stimulate or in the words of the anti-vaxers "challenge" the immune system.
Correct.
It is better to be "challenged" by a vaccine than the real thing. Anti vaccination folks don't understand the immune system.
Katarina, I've read all of those links before, including the physician's report. There is nothing at all in any of them that state that the boy had HIB which you must know is one specific type of bacterial meningitis (and the only one that is VPD). Their opinion was that he had bacterial meningitis but no specific type was named. So if people are going to claim that it was confirmed HIB then they need to provide a source that it was HIB.
Actually, it is untrue that Hib is the only type of bacterial meningitis that is VPD. Prevnar vaccine gives protection against 13 strains of pneumococcal bacteria, which can also cause meningitis.
Regardless of what type of bacterial meningitis Ezekiel had, his parents neglected to get him the care he needed. He was sick for two weeks, never fully recovered in all that time. Yet they waited until he stopped breathing to get medical attention. I believe I have read that the EMTs improvised with the equipment they had to intubate him. It's not their fault. He was already brain-dead. That's verified in several links that several people have posted. I have to say, these people were pretty clueless that it took until then for them to think there was something really wrong with the child. The "working diagnosis" that is, the expert opinion of the doctors who examined him, was bacterial meningitis.
Anti vaccination folks don't understand the immune system.
I understand it very well.... IT SHOULD NOT BE FILLED WITH GARBAGE!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
There is absolutely no scientific evidence to support that statement; in fact, vaccines stimulate or in the words of the anti-vaxers "challenge" the immune system.
From an anti-vax publication self-described "non mainstream" publication that makes sure the reader knows that vaccines are mean, nasty, injected substances. Anti-vaxers are afraid of needles. Of that I am certain. They're always showing pictures of people getting needles poked in them, and kids shrieking in pain.
And, contrary to the claims of that article that "mainstream media" and government agencies say they can't do vaxed vs unvaxed studies, here's a big one that showed little difference, except that the UN-vaxed got more vaccine-preventable diseases: Vaccination Status and Health in Children and Adolescents
"The evaluation showed that vaccinated children and unvaccinated children differed substantially only in terms of the lifetime prevalence of vaccine preventable diseases; as is to be expected the risk of such diseases is notably lower in vaccinated subjects.
In the largest study in children and adolescents so far none of the often anticipated health differences—such as allergies and the number of infections—were observed in vaccinated and unvaccinated subjects aged 1–17 years."
Now here's one that showed something a little different: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1...46.2011.566203 "full childhood vaccination for measles, polio, Tuberculosis (TB), Diphtheria, Pertussis and Tetanus (DPT) significantly increases cognitive test scores relative to matched children who received no vaccinations. The size of the effect is large, raising test scores, on average, by about half an SD."
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 05-08-2016 at 07:34 AM..
"As they tried to put the pieces of their lives back together again, they received a copy of their son’s autopsy report 8 months after his death. Instead of a definitive answer to the cause of death, the report listed an “opinion,†with a heavy emphasis on the fact that Ezekiel was not immunized. The opinion was that he died from bacterial meningitis and an infection in his right lung.
Suzy, "Respectful Insolence's source is "Health Nut News". How ironic is that. You're actually using "Health Nut News" as your source. Ha! Anyways, I read the father's own words of which I believe "Health Nut News" got their info from and he says that bacterial meningitis was named as the cause of death according to the autopsy that they got 8 months later and that while no specific strain was mentioned, the report mentioned the issue of vaccination several times. HIB was not mentioned in the trial testimony either.
Quote:
According to “a non-clinical research methodology,†haemophilus influenzae bacteria was identified in his body, but the particular strain was not cultured or identified."
If this is true (and we don't know if it is because no one testified to this at trial and the only source for this is "Health Nut News") then this was the test that the Medical examiner was told should not be used as evidence of anything. And just like enterovirus can be found in the body without any symptoms, so can HIB. Remember when the Former Chief Medical Examiner noted the presence of enterovirus in the boys nose and throat? Based on the evidence and the autopsy report, her professional opinion was that the boy had viral meningitis and it stemmed from his infection with enterovirus. Remember how you dismissed the presence of that claiming that it can be found in anyone's body at anytime without symptoms. Well, the same can be true for HIB. She noted that the x-rays prior to his intubations showed that his lungs were completely clear when he came to the hospital and that the CME left that particular slide out of his report and only used the post intubation picture of the lungs which were not clear. Why would he leave evidence out of the autopsy? Maybe because it didn't fit the narrative they were going for?
Quote:
We know that the culture was not done because Ezekiel was close to death and too fragile for a spinal tap. In unvaccinated children, 95% of hemophilus influenzae infections are type B.
HIB is not the only type of bacterial meningitis and even if they found HIB bacteria through that test that they were told not to use as evidence, HIB, like enterovirus can be found in the body even without an active infection. Just like Group B Strep, many women find that they have it close to the birth of their babies without having a single symptom.
Quote:
As Katarina told you, the admitting doctor's working diagnosis was bacterial meningitis and the ME who did the autopsy diagnosed bacterial meningitis. Viral meningitis seldom has a fatal course. All you have to support your opinion is an ex-ME whose contract was not renewed (the same as being fired for people who have contracts) and a mother who used Google to diagnose viral meningitis. The ex-ME blames the EMTs (who essentially resurrected the child from the dead) for causing the child's pneumonia, symptoms of which had been present for over two weeks, and for killing him by failing to maintain an airway. Since the EMTs managed to restore circulation, they had to have been able to ventilate the baby. The heart cannot work without oxygen. The ex-ME was obviously trying to use this case to bolster her suit against the ME's office. It backfired; the jury did not believe her. Now she has taken a stance on a case with a lot of public exposure that just makes her look incompetent, no matter whether her complaints against the ME's office have merit or not - and they very well might be meritorious.
The Former Chief had a stellar performance record. She was not fired. She refused to go along with corruption. She did the right thing and for that she did not have her contract renewed. She showed that her ethics and morals were not for sale and for that you claim that she committed perjury in court so that she could win a settlement? But yet the office that is accused of this type of unethical behavior and the place where the autopsy report came from and from and the government (prosecution) employee that it came from is most definitely 100% honest. Your logic defies reason. Oh what a tangled web you weave.
Quote:
The test result reported at autopsy and the clinical course are compatible with Hib, for which Ezekiel was not vaccinated.
Well, according to "Health Nut News" they found HIB. The ME didn't testify to this at trial. The parents didn't make this claim publicly if in fact they really told this to "health Nut News" and it can't be found any news articles covering the trial. Maybe the ME took the advice that the test could not be trusted and should not be used as evidence. The FME disagrees with his diagnosis based upon the evidence, some of which was not included in the autopsy.
Actually, it is untrue that Hib is the only type of bacterial meningitis that is VPD. Prevnar vaccine gives protection against 13 strains of pneumococcal bacteria, which can also cause meningitis.
You're right but the boy would not have had that vaccine either even if he followed the schedule to the letter because that is not something that is given to children of his age.
Quote:
Regardless of what type of bacterial meningitis Ezekiel had, his parents neglected to get him the care he needed. He was sick for two weeks, never fully recovered in all that time. Yet they waited until he stopped breathing to get medical attention. I believe I have read that the EMTs improvised with the equipment they had to intubate him. It's not their fault. He was already brain-dead. That's verified in several links that several people have posted. I have to say, these people were pretty clueless that it took until then for them to think there was something really wrong with the child. The "working diagnosis" that is, the expert opinion of the doctors who examined him, was bacterial meningitis.
Well, the former CME disagrees that it was even bacterial meningitis and she explained how she came to this conclusion quite well. There is no evidence that the boy was brain dead when the ambulance met up with him. There is evidence that he was brain dead when he arrived at the hospital and that is what you are talking about via your links. The ambulance had been stripped of the equipment that could have properly intubated the boy prior to this incident. In spite of the EMT's protests that they get the equipment back on board, it didn't happen until the week AFTER the boy's death. The family was also NOT directed to the closest ambulance. If the dispatch had done that instead of directing them one much further away, he would have gone without oxygen for a much shorter duration and he would have gone to an ambulance that WAS properly equipped and where he could have been properly intubated.
I do agree that the parents should have gone to the doctor sooner (it seems that the jury agrees as well)and that is a mistake that they will have to live with for the rest of their lives. You can't deny that the system also made mistakes along the way. It's a sad case.
"The Former Chief had a stellar performance record. She was not fired. She refused to go along with corruption. She did the right thing and for that she did not have her contract renewed. She showed that her ethics and morals were not for sale and for that you claim that she committed perjury in court so that she could win a settlement? But yet the office that is accused of this type of unethical behavior and the place where the autopsy report came from and from and the government (prosecution) employee that it came from is most definitely 100% honest. Your logic defies reason. Oh what a tangled web you weave."
You know this how?
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