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Old 01-27-2017, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,959,349 times
Reputation: 101088

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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
And the people that protect them are accessories to a crime and should be punished accordingly.
Well, of course - I never said or implied otherwise. Throw the book at them.
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:50 PM
 
13,388 posts, read 6,444,403 times
Reputation: 10022
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrganicSmallHome View Post
It's a day to celebrate American SHARIA LAW!!! You have the right to your religious beliefs, but you have no right to force other people, by law, to live by your beliefs.
By the same token, you have no right to force people who sincerely believe that abortion is murder to fund your abortion or anyone elses.

Its high time this conversation is removed from the national agenda and people who want to have abortions or support the right of others to have abortions fund them.

Not like there is no precedence for this.

We don't force conscientious objectors to participate in war. Should be the same principle imo.
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Old 01-27-2017, 02:53 PM
 
13,425 posts, read 9,957,883 times
Reputation: 14358
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipsywicket View Post
That abortion is the act of stopping a heartbeat and ending the life of another human being.
Then to be consistent, you'll be anti death penalty and anti war too, right?
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:02 PM
 
16,579 posts, read 20,715,742 times
Reputation: 26860
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
I could totally get behind this sort of conversation. Totally.

By the way, I do want to address something that gets thrown around all the time - that those who are pro life are somehow only pro birth but don't care about babies after they're born. That's such a broad generalization and stereotype - I just don't see how it can be bandied about any more seriously than the idea that every woman, or even most women, who support feminism would be proud of a protester wearing a ***** hat and painting her crotch blood red, and screaming "F the USA" at the top of her lungs.

Just an example - my parents and my daughter both adopted (and boy are we glad that those bio mothers didn't choose abortion but instead gave our families these two precious babies). I have four natural kids of my own so no need for adoption myself, but I do support both international and local adoption organizations and healthcare clinics for underprivileged women, which offer great prenatal and pediatric care AT NO COST to the women (they also do not receive any state or federal funds).

I also teach regular classes, as a volunteer, at an organization that teaches job skills to underprivileged women. Our organization has a much higher job success rate than state and federal programs with the same format.

In addition to those activities, I also pay my taxes - and I pay a higher percentage of my income in taxes than either the Obamas or the Trumps.

I am not unusual. Most of the women I know and associate with are college educated, strong women who also support such entities, and who also pay a hefty chunk of their income in taxes.

I'm not addressing this to you specifically but I wanted to put that out there. I hate sounding like I'm bragging - in fact, I hate to even bring up "what I do," but I think it bears repeating, because "what I do" is not rare or unique among those who would call themselves "pro life."
I know that there are lots of people who are pro-life and put their money where there mouths are. There are also people who are pro-choice who support charities that provide homes for unwed mothers, like me. But there definitely are people in the "right-to-life" camp who seem bent on punishing women for having sex for anything other than procreation. And screamers on the other side who are not respectful of the complicated issues surrounding abortion.

I appreciate that adoption is an option for women facing unwanted pregnancies. But IMO, it makes much more sense to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. If you have a way to do so within the boundaries of your program, I'd be curious to know what the women you're working with think about access to LARC, whether they're using it, and whether they'd take advantage of it if they could afford it.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:09 PM
 
51,654 posts, read 25,836,151 times
Reputation: 37894
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipsywicket View Post
That abortion is the act of stopping a heartbeat and ending the life of another human being.
So is executing prisoners in Alabama. So is bombing people in Iraq. So is allowing every nutball and his nephew to walk around with assault rifles.

We are fine with people being murdered in this country. No problem invading other countries based on lies and murdering people left and right.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:12 PM
 
13,425 posts, read 9,957,883 times
Reputation: 14358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
I know that there are lots of people who are pro-life and put their money where there mouths are. There are also people who are pro-choice who support charities that provide homes for unwed mothers, like me. But there definitely are people in the "right-to-life" camp who seem bent on punishing women for having sex for anything other than procreation. And screamers on the other side who are not respectful of the complicated issues surrounding abortion.

I appreciate that adoption is an option for women facing unwanted pregnancies. But IMO, it makes much more sense to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. If you have a way to do so within the boundaries of your program, I'd be curious to know what the women you're working with think about access to LARC, whether they're using it, and whether they'd take advantage of it if they could afford it.
Marlow - yes.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:14 PM
 
51,654 posts, read 25,836,151 times
Reputation: 37894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
By the same token, you have no right to force people who sincerely believe that abortion is murder to fund your abortion or anyone elses.

Its high time this conversation is removed from the national agenda and people who want to have abortions or support the right of others to have abortions fund them.

Not like there is no precedence for this.

We don't force conscientious objectors to participate in war. Should be the same principle imo.
But we do force taxpayers to pay for all sorts of things they don't want to participate in. Like wars.

If we decide that taxpayers only need to pay for things they approve of, I don't want to pay for the war in Iraq or Afghanistan either. I don't want to pay taxes to support Walmart or Israel, and I damn sure don't want to pay taxes to subsidize tax exempt churches.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:20 PM
 
1,323 posts, read 588,982 times
Reputation: 1063
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
But we do force taxpayers to pay for all sorts of things they don't want to participate in. Like wars.

If we decide that taxpayers only need to pay for things they approve of, I don't want to pay for the war in Iraq or Afghanistan either. I don't want to pay taxes to support Walmart or Israel, and I damn sure don't want to pay taxes to subsidize tax exempt churches.
Among above, can I opt out of subsidizing Big Oil? It pollutes the earth and I'm believer in Gaia, so I can object because it offends my sincerely-held belief. As does subsidies for BigAg and their inhumane treatment of animals.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,650 posts, read 60,959,349 times
Reputation: 101088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlow View Post
I know that there are lots of people who are pro-life and put their money where there mouths are. There are also people who are pro-choice who support charities that provide homes for unwed mothers, like me. But there definitely are people in the "right-to-life" camp who seem bent on punishing women for having sex for anything other than procreation. And screamers on the other side who are not respectful of the complicated issues surrounding abortion.

I appreciate that adoption is an option for women facing unwanted pregnancies. But IMO, it makes much more sense to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. If you have a way to do so within the boundaries of your program, I'd be curious to know what the women you're working with think about access to LARC, whether they're using it, and whether they'd take advantage of it if they could afford it.
Most, if not all LARC forms work in these ways:

Quote:
The progestin in the implant prevents pregnancy mainly by stopping ovulation. In addition, the progestin in the implant thickens cervical mucus, which makes it harder for sperm to enter the uterus and fertilize the egg. Progestin also keeps the lining of the uterus thin, making it less likely that a fertilized egg will attach to it.
Long-Acting Reversible Contraception (LARC): IUD and Implant - ACOG

As I'm sure you realize, this is a sticking point for those who believe that human life begins at conception.

That being said, I have no idea whether any of my students use LARC methods of birth control, or if they have or have had abortions, or what form of birth control, if any, they use. I do know that several local clinics which are privately and publicly funded offer free methods of contraception, including condoms and birth control pills. I'm not sure if any of them offer LARC products.

I do not teach classes on birth control and honestly speaking, the conversation has not come up one time in any of my classes. Each student is given a list (and classes on) available local options for all sorts of things including a wide range of health care. Here's just one local organization:
Bethesda Health Clinic, Tyler, TX
Tyler Morning Telegraph - Shine Your Light: Bethesda treats most overlooked patients

I live in a mid sized metro area in Texas, with a metro population of about 250,000. Here's a partial list of free clinics that the women in this area can access. Note that several of them specifically offer women's health services:
Smith, TX Free Clinics | Affordable Medical and Dental Clinics in Smith County

Last edited by KathrynAragon; 01-27-2017 at 03:36 PM..
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:26 PM
 
27,154 posts, read 15,327,118 times
Reputation: 12075
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnOurWayHome View Post
Only female adults or male adults too?


All adults but not all grownups apparently.


I'm sick of people not being responsible for themselves especially when it affects others.
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