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So now I do not exercise or eat healthy and "stress" over things I cannot control! You deduced that ... how?
You can get plenty of sleep, eat a healthy diet, exercise faithfully, live a completely stress free life (though there is no such thing) and still have a 90% chance of catching measles if you are susceptible to it and exposed. Then your immune system can take up to three years to recover, no matter how much vitamin A you take.
Sure, if you survive childhood the odds of living to older age is higher. The trick was surviving childhood, and vaccine preventable diseases killed a lot of people, during childhood and after.
I can assure you that not everyone lived to be 80 + years old, however. If you are going to say that you need to provide a source. Adults did indeed die from infectious diseases. I have a family in my tree who lost multiple members of three generations in the same typhoid fever outbreak, for example. Women also faced the challenge of childbirth. There are lots of men in my family tree who had children with two or three wives. Infection after childbirth was commonly fatal. One of my great grandmothers died about ten days after her only child was born. She was 26. I assure you that folks living back then would have appreciated antibiotics and vaccines, not to mention the other medications we have.
I have been doing Genealogy for over 40 years. My Uncle died at a year old in 1924. His Vital Records Death Certificate, which I have, records his Death as "Crib Death". Today that would be recorded as SIDS. They didn't know any better then? He died of some deadly contagious disease which modern medicine (vaccines) could have prevented? Go to graveyards to see all the young children who DIED before vaccines!
Several problems. My Uncle was a Twin who died in the same crib right next to his brother. CONTAGIOUS DEADLY DISEASE that vaccines could have prevented? His twin did not die and survived into his old age. Both my Grandma and Mom (older sister) said that Anthony was not quite "right" since birth. Smaller, weaker. less mentally attuned, than his twin brother. They both told me that it was not a shock to them that Anthony died as a baby, whereas his Twin Brother, and older Sister, survived. Modern vaccinations? MY Superhuman Family? Do you have a REAL diagnosis, let alone treatment, for SIDS even today?
So when you tell people to go to a cemetery to look at all the young children who died many years ago because there were no vaccines then, do NOT use my Uncle Anthony as a Poster Baby for vaccines. Medicine didn't know then, and wouldn't know NOW. Vaccines or No Vaccines.
When you say this, it infuriates me for my Uncle Anthony. Let him, and others, RIP. I loved my Uncle Sal, and would have loved to have know my Uncle Tony as well. It is insulting to me, and my Uncle's memory, to claim you would have saved him with a modern day vaccine.
Again, thanks for your concern. I am quite well despite my "odd sleep schedule'.
If you are going to question science you should have a body of evidence supporting why you think the science is wrong. There is no debate about vaccine science from the community of scientists who develop and administer vaccines. All the anti-vax side has is people like Humphries who give webinars on the "energy" of homeopathy and recycle anti-vax myths over and over and over.
No, "most people" do not "experience a plethora of medical mistakes, and bad advice in their life time." The media may make it sound like that is true, but all the folks who are happy with their medical care are not on the internet posting about it.
My father's internist could have written off a bit of nondescript chest pain as indigestion. Instead he did an EKG and my dad had bypass surgery the same day after a heart cath showed a blockage. My son's leukemia presented as just fatigue from climbing the stairs in my home. His pediatrician diagnosed the leukemia, we saw the pediatric oncologist the next day, and thanks to a crack team of doctors (and Big Pharma) he is alive and healthy today. I had an intestinal blockage several years ago due to scar tissue from surgery I had had when I was in my twenties. I was in the operating room less than hour after I walked in the ER with belly pain. My husband has had a melanoma removed from his face. It was treated early and there is small risk of recurrence. My daughter in law had an emergency cesarean section when my granddaughter was born. It turned out there was an unusual abnormality of the placenta and a vaginal birth would have killed the baby. My mother unfortunately had serious complications from heart bypass surgery. Her surgeon was not incompetent and he did not make any mistakes. The complication was due to her disease, not bad medicine. I take a statin because I want to avoid bypass surgery if I can. I listen to my doctor and follow his advice. There are millions like my family members.
There are plenty of good doctors out there. If you check with family and friends you can usually find those they are happy with. If you know any nurses who work in hospitals they can often tell you who the best surgeons and specialists are.
Sorry, but many Americans cannot correctly answer questions on basic middle school level science. About half believe there is a scientific basis for astrology. About a quarter of Americans think homeopathy is effective and about half are unsure whether it is or isn't.
Yes, vaccine refusal is a serious public health threat. Vaccine refusal fueled the Disney outbreak of measles. Every outbreak of measles seen in the US in recent years happened in unvaccinated populations. "I don't trust medicine" is not a valid reason to refuse vaccines.
Well first off I'm sorry you and your family have been through so much. You've dealt with a lot of medical issues. Glad you and everyone are doing ok.
Second, to avoid just regurgitating all that I've said previously, you can just re read my posts. They cover everything else you've mentioned including what I think is a real public health threat, it's not vaccine refusal.
So am I and so are my kids. Thanks for your concern.
The tiny group of people who don't vaccinate for anything as well as the small group of people who don't vaccinate for everything is really one of your big concerns in life? Has something really bad happened to you or your family because someone else didn't vaccinate? I'm trying to understand where your passion comes from in regards to vaccines and the desire to get EVERYONE on board with ALL vaccines.
You really seem threatened by Dr. Humphries. You want people to trust medical professionals yet you expect people to believe you, a random internet poster, over her, someone who worked in the medical field for more then 20 years and who is an MD. What you mean to say is that you only want people to trust medical authorities who are 100% on board with all vaccines and who do not express any reservations about them. Suzanne Humphries, MD | drsuzannehumphries@gmail.com
That is interesting that you are keeping track of the number of times people have read your vaccine related posts. I'm interested in this topic mainly because I am fearful that our ability to choose is being eroded. I don't however think of this as a platform for influencing or swaying people's opinions on a massive scale.
The number of people who do not vaccinate is unfortunately increasing. There are some communities in this country where the vaccination rate - totally unvaccinated - is well below the threshold needed to produce herd immunity. All it takes is for one person in that community who is not immune to measles to travel outside the country to an area where the virus still circulates, get infected, and come home and infect 90% of the unvaccinated people he exposes (and the 4% or so vaccinated folks for whom the vaccine did not take.)
No, as I said in an earlier post I have never lost someone close to me to a vaccine preventable disease. My parents valued vaccines. They did not have a lot of money, but they would never have allowed us to not take every available childhood vacccine. My mother helped with administering polio vaccine at my school. Despite Jo's assertion that my parents' generation did not fear vaccine preventable diseases, they did. My folks had contact with more polio victims than the average person of that day. Maybe that partially drove their attitude toward vaccines in general.
You see, unlike those who value their "right to choose" over the effects that can happen to other families due to their unvaccinated child getting sick - and outbreaks are driven by the unvaccinated population - I feel responsible for preventing illness in others, too. The risks of vaccines are so absolutely tiny there is no reason for every person who does not have a medical reason to refuse them. There is no scientifcally valid reason to selectively refuse vaccines, either.
I am not threatened by Suzanne Humphries. I do not care if she has a medical degree. She's a quack, and I showed you how when I went through your link that was a "rebuttal" of a well thought out criticism of one of her books. Her book is full of misinformation, half truths, and outright lies. The very first thing said in your "rebuttal" link was that she is not a homeopath. I linked to a site advertising a webinar she was giving on the "energy" of homeopathy. She has become a homeopath. For the purpose of her book she wants to sound like a mainstream physician who is knowledgeable about the immune system and vaccines, so she lies about being a homeopath. She does not know about either vaccines or immunology.To someone who does not know even basic immunology her book will sound scientific. It's not. She's a liar. If you believe her book over mainstream immunologists you are buying lies and pseudoscience. Also, there is a page for homeopathy at her website. All it contains is an email form to ask for more information. Do you really think that if you ask her about homeopathy she is not going to advise using it? For its "energy" and all? Why do you trust someone who lies to tell you about vaccines but not trust your child's pediatrician? Humphries has done no original research on vaccines and immunology. She even says no one gets taught about vaccines in medical school (another lie). If she never was taught about vaccines, how can she claim to be an expert? She has no listings in PubMed at all. She is not a vaccine expert and she is a liar.
I looked up my stats here to make a point. I have no idea how many people are being influenced by what I write, but having my posts read over 20 million times means someone may be influenced to get vaccine information from real experts. Suzanne Humphries is not a vaccine expert. I post information from real experts. I am not claiming to be such an expert myself, but I have enough formal education in human physiology to know vaccine expertise when I see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Who is is behind the, "Encyclopedia of American Loons". Dr. Humphries has more medical training then you or I. How is she "nuts". No one should get their information from a hate website aka "Encyclopedia of American Loons".
Her medical training means nothing since she has kicked it out the door and does not use it. She's a homeopath. Homeopathy is right at the top of the list of pseudoscientific quackery.
Here is Humphries' listing at the Loons site again. What is not true in it? If it is factual, why does it matter who wrote it? If it is factual, how is the site a "hate website"? Just because it exposes Humphries' egregious shortcomings does not mean it is a "hate website".
Are you saying that nurses are more educated about vaccines then doctors?
Who is behind the website, "Encyclopedia of American Loons"? A website dedicated to slandering people is a hate website.
Your opinion is that Suzanne Humphries is nuts. Not everyone shares your opinion.
I may not understand Suzy's passion for vaccines but that does not mean that I am trying to put her down. I find it very confusing. That is all.
Any pediatric nurse who has spent a career talking with parents about vaccines and administering them knows more about vaccines than Suzanne Humphries. Thank you, Kat!
It's not slander if it's true. Please point out to us exactly what you think is slanderous in the Loons article. Anyone who truly understands immunology knows Humphries is nuts.
I hope I have alleviated your confusion. I hate vaccine pseudoscience. It's dangerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
I have been doing Genealogy for over 40 years. My Uncle died at a year old in 1924. His Vital Records Death Certificate, which I have, records his Death as "Crib Death". Today that would be recorded as SIDS. They didn't know any better then? He died of some deadly contagious disease which modern medicine (vaccines) could have prevented? Go to graveyards to see all the young children who DIED before vaccines!
Several problems. My Uncle was a Twin who died in the same crib right next to his brother. CONTAGIOUS DEADLY DISEASE that vaccines could have prevented? His twin did not die and survived into his old age. Both my Grandma and Mom (older sister) said that Anthony was not quite "right" since birth. Smaller, weaker. less mentally attuned, than his twin brother. They both told me that it was not a shock to them that Anthony died as a baby, whereas his Twin Brother, and older Sister, survived. Modern vaccinations? MY Superhuman Family? Do you have a REAL diagnosis, let alone treatment, for SIDS even today?
So when you tell people to go to a cemetery to look at all the young children who died many years ago because there were no vaccines then, do NOT use my Uncle Anthony as a Poster Baby for vaccines. Medicine didn't know then, and wouldn't know NOW. Vaccines or No Vaccines.
When you say this, it infuriates me for my Uncle Anthony. Let him, and others, RIP. I loved my Uncle Sal, and would have loved to have know my Uncle Tony as well. It is insulting to me, and my Uncle's memory, to claim you would have saved him with a modern day vaccine.
I do not believe anyone has claimed all deaths "a few generations ago" were due to infections we can now prevent with vaccines. Please link to the offending post.
With all due respect to your Uncle Anthony, vaccines do reduce the risk of SIDS.
"Immunisations are associated with a halving of the risk of SIDS. There are biological reasons why this association may be causal, but other factors, such as the healthy vaccinee effect, may be important. Immunisations should be part of the SIDS prevention campaigns."
"Increased DTP immunisation coverage is associated with decreased SIDS mortality. Current recommendations on timely DTP immunisation should be emphasised to prevent not only specific infectious diseases but also potentially SIDS."
Last edited by suzy_q2010; 04-11-2017 at 08:18 PM..
Well first off I'm sorry you and your family have been through so much. You've dealt with a lot of medical issues. Glad you and everyone are doing ok.
Second, to avoid just regurgitating all that I've said previously, you can just re read my posts. They cover everything else you've mentioned including what I think is a real public health threat, it's not vaccine refusal.
I was not seeking sympathy, just showing you that bad experiences with the health care system to not happen to everyone, as you said. The folks with no bad experiences do not get on the internet and talk about their positive experiences a whole lot.
Bringing up other issues in the thread does not make vaccine refusal a trivial threat. It is very real.
By the way, controlling measles outbreaks is expensive:
Are you saying that nurses are more educated about vaccines then doctors?
Who is behind the website, "Encyclopedia of American Loons"? A website dedicated to slandering people is a hate website.
Your opinion is that Suzanne Humphries is nuts. Not everyone shares your opinion.
I may not understand Suzy's passion for vaccines but that does not mean that I am trying to put her down. I find it very confusing. That is all.
First, I should say thank you to suzy_q2010 for the previous post #534.
Secondly, no MissTerri, I do not think that nurses are more educated about vaccines than doctors. I am saying I know more about vaccines than Suzanne Humphries. Suz says she learned nothing about vaccines in medical school, and from the schlock she writes, that may be true for her! /s All kidding aside, she learned the basics in med school. Then she did a residency in Internal Medicine followed by a fellowship in nephrology. Neither of these specialties have much to do with vaccines. Internal Med is general adult medicine, and nephrology is kidneys. Suz doesn't put any graduation dates on her CV, but by doing a little calculating of my own, I figure she graduated from med school in the early 80s. (She says she worked in the hospital from 1989-2011.) There wasn't much to the immunization schedule back in the early 80s. Adults, who her residencies focused on, were recommended to get a Td every 10 years, period! Hep B vaccine came out in 1981, was just recommended for health care workers and other "at risk" adults. There was a pneumonia vaccine available for people over 65 only. Flu shots were only recommended for people "at risk" and those over 65. With nephrology, again, not much about vaccines going on. Then Suz had her epiphany! She got into homeopathy. She's doesn't mention homeopathy, but others do. http://drsuzanne.net/wp-content/uplo...ite-2017-1.pdf Suzanne Humphries - RationalWiki
I, OTOH, worked in pediatrics/public health for about 40 years of my 45 year career (1970-2015). I not only got my immunization background in college (University of Pittsburgh), but I gave immunizations and got extensive continuing education in immunizations from the CDC and the Illinois and Colorado departments of health. When working for a health department, we worked under standing orders, meaning we nurses determined what was needed at what time. I've seen a lot of vaccines come online, and a few discontinued (the old whole-cell DTP and the first rotavirus, although I was working for a health department when that one came out and we never got it before it was pulled, so I never gave it). Several iterations of Hib vaccine, Hep B vaccine and meningitis vaccines came out/were discontinued as well during my career.
I'm tired of your "micro-agressions" (meaning, little digs) and I will point them out.
Getting plenty of sleep, eating a healthy diet with lots of vegetables, herbs and fruit, regular exercise and reducing stress are all things that people can do to help keep their immune system and body strong so that if they do catch an illness, vaccine preventable or not, their body will be in a much better position to fight and to avoid serious complications then someone who stays up all night, stresses over things that are outside of their control (like other people's medical decisions), doesn't exercise or eat healthy, etc.
LOL!
They still get the crud.
Serious complications tend to happen in the form of underlying and undiagnosed conditions - you can eat all the herbs and tofu you want, **** happens.
You can be vegan, catch a solid 8 hours (or more) of sleep, eat veggies until you turn green or orange & exercise to the point of 3% body fat.
You'll still get HPV.
You'll still get the measles and the flu and every other VPD because viruses don't care what you eat or how many hours of sleep you get in your schedule. And you'll still pass it around to others before you don't.
You're good to go to a 3rd world country and help those who can & do have VPDs without being vax'd against them? You know, because you get good sleep, exercise and eat herbs along with your healthy diet?
Didn't think so.
Last edited by Informed Info; 04-11-2017 at 11:48 PM..
I was not seeking sympathy, just showing you that bad experiences with the health care system to not happen to everyone, as you said. The folks with no bad experiences do not get on the internet and talk about their positive experiences a whole lot.
Bringing up other issues in the thread does not make vaccine refusal a trivial threat. It is very real.
By the way, controlling measles outbreaks is expensive:
Ok, well you got my sympathy without seeking it. Do what you want with it.
I think medical errors are a bigger threat. Just compare the numbers of death and injury from both every year.
"Vaccination prices have gone from single digits to sometimes triple digits in the last two decades, creating dilemmas for doctors and their patients as well as straining public health budgets. Here in San Antonio and elsewhere, some doctors have stopped offering immunizations because they say they cannot afford to buy these potentially lifesaving preventive treatments that insurers often reimburse poorly, sometimes even at a loss."
No one knows who is behind the "Encyclopedia of American Loons" blog?
LMAO, is that a real thing? I thought it was just contrived smokescreen. I'll have to seek and find.
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