Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The ACA is a bad law. Let it fail. We need single payer.
Obamacare is like that car that is a lemon. The cost to keep it going far exceeds its value. Cut your loses and Replace it.
I agree, but getting the single payer, I believe the issue is the health insurance industry feels like they won't make the HUGE profits that they demand. If not single payer, I say "kill" it. It was never "affordable healthcare", but a way to prop up health insurance providers as many employers could no longer afford to provide health insurance, good jobs with good benefits left the country, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962
NO.. I had insurance and have insurance. ACA caused my insurance costs to skyrocket. It is a bad law, the flaws were called out from day one. The name is misleading. It does nothing to make health care affordable and in fact increased the costs of healthcare for everyone except that 21 million you seem to be concerned about.
That's it! It did not make health care affordable, and many after paying premiums couldn't afford to go for care because on the low end, they couldn't afford to pay the deductibles. Also, the poorer people had the crappy end of coverage, while those that could afford the gold plans had better coverage, if they could afford the gold plan, they should not have been given subsidies in the first place. Poor coverage does nothing. Medical bankruptcies barely decreased for those that had health insurance once ObamaCareNot was put in place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
So he is NOT imposing draconian penalties on those that can't afford health insurance? Most of us consider this a good thing.
Work requirements on Medicaid recipients? Again, a good thing for those physically capable of working (link, BTW, to where this is done).
Not advertising? Good, why should we be wasting money on advertising instead of providing health care?
All excellent points. Also, when it comes to Medicaid, many are able to to work, but the benefits associated with public assistance far outweigh dragging their butts out of bed in the morning. I knew a girl in tech school studying computer something, she was young, in a wheelchair and had limited use of her hands, just griping, she was there to get a work skill, so my sympathies for people that mooch off the system are limited after knowing her. Now the big thing is that it gives them "anxiety" or "they can't get along with others", I thought that was something one just dealt with, but hey, I was not going to mooch off the system, so I choked it down.
They need to "kill" ObamaCareNot, before it "kills" us, which was the purpose to bankrupt our nation to make us more amicable to the idea of globalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962
Because the law is a lemon. I don't want it fixed either. I want it replaced with a single payer system similar to what Australia has. Everyone is covered and everyone contributes. No hidden costs, very fair and very effective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin
Yes I am. My costs went up 150% and is killing us middle class self employed who have to pay for this monstrosity.
Kill the program.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962
LOL well put. The Dems wrote a very flawed bill, didn't read it, Obama made it a law and now it's everyone else's responsibility to fix it.
It would be like fixing an old house that was falling down. We need to bulldoze it down, level the area, step back and decide what to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight
If anything the penalties for not signing up for healthcare were not severe enough.
Just a bit misleading when he keep stating "it's failing on it's own".
There should never have been any penalties at all.
I know a couple that writes a blog. They quit good paying jobs to become full-time RVers working menial jobs. They are both in their 50s. They are now paying a little over $300.00 a month for coverage. They travel, show photos of their $100 meals of steak and lobster, while we subsidize their insurance. Something is off in that scenario.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
Here's a clue. If Obamacare were such a great program that people actually WANTED...you wouldn't have to punish people in order to make them use it. I realize that is a difficult concept to understand.
Excellent point! Had ObamaCareNot have been something other than a ploy to bankrupt the country, which it would have succeeded in doing, had delivered affordable care which it did not, I would guess many would have signed up. The system was not fair in any way, and did provide affordable care across the board. I would like to see socialized medicine and would gladly participate in that where everyone had the same level of care, EVERYONE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine
Rather than letting Obamacare implode, Trump is causing it to implode.
Sometimes this is necessary to avoid continued suffering. Let's just get it done. We need to end it, and that should get a serious discussion on the table.
Obiecare has no price controls, it can't be tweaked. We need a new approach, Obamacare is dead. I haven't seen any comprehensive fixes offered by Democrats, Trump can and should kill it.
And what do you suppose the Republicans will replace it with?
They're proposing a bill that will not only cause people to lose coverage entirely but will increase premiums by 20% and lower coverage for those who do pay for insurance.
Location: Born & Raised DC > Carolinas > Seattle > Denver
9,338 posts, read 7,113,345 times
Reputation: 9487
Quote:
Originally Posted by Compression
Just as silly as the dems asking the R's to vote for 0bamacare. When they were told it had to passed to see what was in it?
If the Dem's would pay attention, they might learn something from Trump. Dem's are being handed their own schtick, and are to blind to see it.
CN
So...will Trump and/or McConnell ask for help from democrats on a bipartisan fix for ACA? Or will they be petty and rather see it die and millions of Americans lose health coverage than consider working with Democrats?
NO.. I had insurance and have insurance. ACA caused my insurance costs to skyrocket. It is a bad law, the flaws were called out from day one. The name is misleading. It does nothing to make health care affordable and in fact increased the costs of healthcare for everyone except that 21 million you seem to be concerned about.
I have followed the ACA legislation since before Day 1.
I am very well aware many politicians called it a flawed, bad law from Day 1. I am aware many media has echoed polititions, high on outrage, low on facts. I used to track The Ted Cruz website that made clear the ACA was bad, bad, bad. It was big on exclamations with no facts.
The Obama " if you like your plan/ Doctor, you can keep your plan/ Doctor " was eventually deemed lie of the year by fact checking orgs. There was never certainty one could keep their plan/ Doctor before the ACA and was not true after ACA.
The projected average annual savings related to premiums was flawed logic based on flawed models used by private insurers, many of whom had no experience in the Individual Plan Model. It was based on all states expanding Medicad. It was based on the masses, especially young adults, complying with the Individual Mandate. It did not contemplate SCOTUS ruling regarding forcing states to expand Medicaid.
Insurers have been exiting the Individual Plan Market for more than 25 years. They exit because they can't profit from it. Many a state found themselves in situations of only one or no insurers willing to write Individual Plans, decades before the ACA. State reacted. Some chose to subsidize insurance companies. Some chose to make an insurer's ability to write lucrative large group plans and Medicare Supplimental Plans conditional on continuing to wrote Individual Plans. And most states allowed insurers the opportunity to define conditions of exclusion, limit annual and/ or lifetime claims, operate very narrow networks -and so on.
Some states established so- called high risk pools that further excluded more people than they insured. While governors took bows for high risk pools, the reality was these pools were designed to exclude the maximum number of people.
From my perspective the biggest flaw with the ACA is that it did nothing to control the cost of healthcare from a consumer perspective. That was left to private insurers and their networks. Same deal with the bills proposed by the House and Senate.
What if it doesn't fail? What if it just hangs on by a thread but nothing better comes along.
Is that worth the revenge aspect?
I don't get that mind set that thinks that way.
But then again I don't blindly support a political party and am more interested in proving the other guys wrong then I am about doing the right thing for all American voters.
It's a stupid game -- it's a swampy one -- and it does nothing to drain that infamous swamp.
So...will Trump and/or McConnell ask for help from democrats on a bipartisan fix for ACA? Or will they be petty and rather see it die and millions of Americans lose health coverage than consider working with Democrats?
I thought they did ask for help, and were basically refused.
Nothing will be done on a bi partisan agenda. Those days are far gone. It's now a battle of wills, between communist style socialism from the left, and semi fascist socialism from the right. We the people are the losers in the middle.
The whole health care thing is a smokescreen. O'care should be repealed, never replaced. Let the free market handle the situation. Personally nothing has worked for me. I didn't have health care before O care, didn't have it after, and likely wont have it under anything the Trump administration is proposing.
Because I am self employed, I am perceived to be some sort of multi millionaire and do not qualify for anything. Too young, make just to much, but just not enough. If there was no gubmint control I might have a chance to at least shop for what I can afford. Instead, it is all dictated to me.
People don't understand this whole thing is just another power grab that allows TPTB to dictate the way you live your life through financial slavery. WAKE UP! already. Once they have everybody categorized into separate "classes" defined by their level of "healthcare", they can decimate whole classes, thru the use of "healthcare". Government has NO PLACE in healthcare.
I don't profess to know the answer, I do know government isn't it.
Just the observation of the excluded outlier, looking in. You're all fools to keep spinning your wheels looking to government for the answer. Good luck with all that.
So why are the republicans stopping the Dems from correcting it and making it better?
Sooner or later everyone needs healthcare. Congress critters saw the opportunity to make it political decades ago.
Trump could have run on any healthcare platform he chose to do. He could have ran on a platform of repealing the ACA and leaving the rest to the states. Instead, Trump ran on repeated promises "to replace Obamacare with something wonderful that will take care of everybody and the government is going to pay for it". It was purported to be easy, so easy.
It is obvious his campaign had no plan. It is obvious his Admin has no plan. Trump did the " who knew healthcare was so complicated" thing.
Trump and Price gushed about the House Bill 1.0 which did not fly. They gushed about House Bill 2.0 and celebrated its passage in the House in the Rose Garden. Trump then told the Senate the House Bill 2.0 was mean and encouraged them to develop their own.
Trump made clear he had his pen ready to sign whatever Congress passes. He wants to declare a win and move on. The process eventually dissolved into some Senators crafting assorted legislation on napkins over lunch and bringing it to a vote hours later. This is how Congress critters work. The votearama failed.
I thought they did ask for help, and were basically refused.
Nothing will be done on a bi partisan agenda. Those days are far gone. It's now a battle of wills, between communist style socialism from the left, and semi fascist socialism from the right. We the people are the losers in the middle.
The whole health care thing is a smokescreen. O'care should be repealed, never replaced. Let the free market handle the situation. Personally nothing has worked for me. I didn't have health care before O care, didn't have it after, and likely wont have it under anything the Trump administration is proposing.
Because I am self employed, I am perceived to be some sort of multi millionaire and do not qualify for anything. Too young, make just to much, but just not enough. If there was no gubmint control I might have a chance to at least shop for what I can afford. Instead, it is all dictated to me.
People don't understand this whole thing is just another power grab that allows TPTB to dictate the way you live your life through financial slavery. WAKE UP! already. Once they have everybody categorized into separate "classes" defined by their level of "healthcare", they can decimate whole classes, thru the use of "healthcare". Government has NO PLACE in healthcare.
I don't profess to know the answer, I do know government isn't it.
Just the observation of the excluded outlier, looking in. You're all fools to keep spinning your wheels looking to government for the answer. Good luck with all that.
CN
How exactly would the free market handle the people without healthcare if the ACA went away, they have no interest in those with preexisting conditions or insuring in rural remote areas.
Because the law is a lemon. I don't want it fixed either. I want it replaced with a single payer system similar to what Australia has. Everyone is covered and everyone contributes. No hidden costs, very fair and very effective.
Regardless of what you want there is not adequate support within either party in Congress to pursue Single Payer.
Had Bernie been nominated and elected, his entire agenda would have been DOA. He would have been forced to the Center.
Hillary was in favor of amending the ACA and knew there is nothing easy about healthcare. Faced with the prospect of 8 years of Hillary, Congress would have had to play ball. Too bad she had a boatload of baggage and ran a inferior campaign.
Trump could have chosen any platform for healthcare, including a straight up repeal, leaving the rest to the states to figure out, or not. Instead he chose a populist platform to " replace with something wonderful that will take care of everybody and the government is going to pay for it"
Hold him accountable.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Also, the poorer people had the crappy end of coverage, while those that could afford the gold plans had better coverage, if they could afford the gold plan, they should not have been given subsidies in the first place. Poor coverage does nothing. Medical bankruptcies barely decreased for those that had health insurance once ObamaCareNot was put in place.
Excellent point! Had ObamaCareNot have been something other than a ploy to bankrupt the country, which it would have succeeded in doing, had delivered affordable care which it did not, I would guess many would have signed up. The system was not fair in any way, and did provide affordable care across the board. I would like to see socialized medicine and would gladly participate in that where everyone had the same level of care, EVERYONE.
