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Nothing will be done to end this madness. If Cruz had killed a hundred kids, nothing would change. The question is, why is this happening in America. No other first world country would permit this kind carnage to happen to their kids, without doing something drastic about it.
Many Americans keep insisting that guns have made the US a safer place to live, well they obviously have not. Why can young Americans for instance buy an AR-15 when they are 18yrs old, but can't have a beer until they are 21?
America has let it's guard down on the false sense of security government has fed you and me.
Since before this nation was fought for, savages roamed among us. Government does not want us to fight back.
Time to teach our kids at an early age, all about guns. Educate them about guns as much as you do to spell the word firearm and add and multiply, to know how many rounds you got left before a reload.
The more gun education in the minds of the young, the more comfortable we will be with seeing a sidearm holstered on the hip by the public. It is going to happen. A gun in everyone's hand returning fire, deters the cowards.
Semi auto rifles are not "top fuel dragsters", they are common sporting, and self defense arms. Stop being overly dramatic, and emotional. However, if they are banned, and the shootings don't stop, what do you think will happen next? Banning semi auto rifles will have NO effect on violent crime because they are rarely used in crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry
No I was making fun of you for making an idiotic statement. I wonder how long it will take before you make another?
Driving isn't a right. So to answer my previous question in this post, Not very long
Yeah OK, jumping to conclusions without knowing what a right is, can be fun, I guess.
Dramatic?
Apparently y'all missed school the day what analogies are was taught.
Nothing will be done to end this madness. If Cruz had killed a hundred kids, nothing would change. The question is, why is this happening in America. No other first world country would permit this kind carnage to happen to their kids, without doing something drastic about it.
Many Americans keep insisting that guns have made the US a safer place to live, well they obviously have not. Why can young Americans for instance buy an AR-15 when they are 18yrs old, but can't have a beer until they are 21?
1. Lack of deterrence is what permits it to continue.
What exists to perpetuate these occurrences?
Lack of deterrence.
2. 18 you are recognized as an adult and have adult responsibilities. I have said for years the drinking age should be lowered. If you can vote at 18 if you can smoke at 18 if you can be issued a rifle and deployed overseas at 17 18 then you should be able to drink. If you can enter a legal binding contract at 18 such as a car or student loan, you should be able to drink.
My highschool days I partied out in the woods with friends. Not a dozen or handful of friends. Picture 50-100+. We all drank... there was an allure about it. Once I hit 21... it wasn't as fun anymore. No allure existed. So what big deal you can drink...
However, it is seen as 18 year olds lack the responsibility to be trusted to drink...
But... they're responsible enough to do the above and be charged as an adult?
I bought my first AR15 on my 18th birthday.
A colt carry handle 20 inch rifle.
2 years later, a company came out that produced a carbine the likes of which rivaled bushmaster and armalite. Black Rain Ordinance. That was the second AR I purchased. I saved up and sold a dirt bike to buy it. The colt was like 2k dollars after taxes. The Black Rain was almost 3k after taxes.
When I was 16 I got a Ruger Mini14 for my birthday. Fires the exact same cartridge as an AR15. Same barrel length and magazine capacity. Just different appearance. Today there are multiple carbine and rifle platforms that have the same capacity, same barrel lengths, same caliber, just different visual appearances. So banning an AR15 won't solve anything...
Banning magazine capacity won't solve anything. You can have 5 round magazines, it will only encourage more accurate placed shots. You could ban semi-autos and go to single shot bolt actions. You will only change the distance at which these scumbags will shoot from. You ban firearms completely the implement will change.
There needs to be a deterrence present.
At 13/14 I was allowed to go up by myself in the woods to shoot targets.
I had 1200 undeveloped acres for a backyard. Grab a rifle or shotgun and leave a note or call my father's cell phone to let him know. I even grabbed my orange hunting vest just in case someone was on our property or close by so I wouldn't be mistaken for a deer...
My little sister and I grew up with guns in a wood and glass cabinet... Not a multi thousand dollar steel safe.
Our parents were parents. Fair but strict. Neither of us ever made a threat with a firearm. Neither of us ever had the thought of committing a heinous act with a firearm. There was no allure or forbidden fruit approach.
I even had friends bring their rifles and shotguns when they would spend the weekend over.
We went up in the woods 2 3 4 of us at a time. Grab our weapons, our ammo, put them in cases or drag bags, hop on our quads or in one of my field cars and go up the logging trail to where my shooting range was...
That was 14 15 16 years old...to some or most here that will sound insane. I am only one who is vocal about it but that's how things were in rural Upstate NY in the early 00s...
If I went to a friend's house on the weekend... Same deal. Some of their parents wanted my weapons to go in their safe/cabinet. Some of their parents didn't mind the rifle/shotguns/ammo going in a closet... Some parents wanted to be present when we'd go shooting, some weren't.
The false equivalency that exists is all firearm and especially AR15 owners are all blood lusting kid killers isn't true. It isn't the weapon, the inanimate object that causes or promotes these vile acts.
I don't expect an honest discussion or conversation on this subject.
I suspect this post will be interpreted as malarkey. Or perceived as Blasphemy or insane... and it isnt...
Contrary to the group think... it isn't the weapon causing this.
The continuation of lack of deterrence, failed parenting, "mental health", and now as it has been reported, ineptitude within the FBI after this scumbag was reported...
There are many factors present. To focus on the weapon is short sighted. You wish upon a shooting star to make all firearms and ammo and knowledge to create them to disappear vanish, you have solved Nothing.
Some will say well you can't kill as many with a knife or bomb or car/truck blunt force objects...
That proves my point for me in not solving this problem.
The focus should be on the incentive that exists to perpetuate these heinous vile acts.
The focus should be on safe guarding our communities and schools. Not divisive fighting pro gun anti gun rhetoric.
The focus should be on failing to follow through with investigations into those making menacing comments and threats of violence. There's no excuse for threats. Some may argue well, how do you differentiate between a joke and a threat?
You don't joke about shooting people schools or innocent defenseless children.
Does the age need to be increased to buy firearms?
No.
Why?
The focus is in the wrong direction.
You will merely create an allure...
In case the anti firearm crowd hasn't noticed, talks of stricter gun control promotes sales. Why? Because what's here today may not be available tomorrow. Simple logic. Buy what you can while still legal. Especially true for those that are observant and those who are not ignorant of history.
If you want to solve these plaguing issues, you'd want to Protect Life. Preserve Liberty. Ensure a future pursuit of happiness. Even if those pursuits are different from yours. That isn't meaning attacking innocent children in a school. That means if you fear or do not like guns you don't buy them. You don't force others to accept your views opinions and feelings... it isn't about what's "fair"
There never should ever have been a school shooting. Never. There's no excuse rhyme or reason for it.
None whatsoever.
Most kids carry their back packs around all day -- or in our school they do. It is a very real possibility because then the kids can try to protect themselves.
Isn't that sad -- we want to arm our kids so they won't get shot or provide them with bullet proof clothing/accessories to protect them.
I don't care why -- I just care that's where the USA is going.
Are we all going to be needing guns to go to the movies, shopping, concerts, etc.
That's the rub, in my experience the kids had to stow their backpacks in their lockers unless they were clear or mesh.
My question, and it may be too early, is how did Cruz gain access to the school? It's been recommended as best practice since the early 2000s that schools lock all access doors (of course kids will open them to let others in) and funnel everyone coming to the school to one, preferably locked, entrance which has active coverage, either school based security or, if available, a School/Community Resource Officer.
Good, because it sure sounded like someone made her Queen and she was going to think for everyone, be damned someone else thinks differently.
Some people make the mistake of expecting normal mature thought from the kids in the gun cult , and find it hard to grasp a group of immature people who , due to chronological age , should be past the whiny me me me stage of emotional development and be able to understand adult concepts like how their rights affect others .
I figured it out after Newton , and no longer make the mistake of expecting anything but whiny "me-ism" from the adolescent gun cult. I had them admit openly to me after that event that their right to shoot at targets on a range or shoot hogs was more important to them than the rights of children to not get shot.
Look at the charts and read that again. We are "in the middle of the pack" in comparison to the entire world, meaning of course we are doing better than some 3rd world countries, but "behind MANY OTHER advanced industrial nations"
That does not speak well for our education system at all.
I guess we can just disagree about the drug issue.
In the l-o-n-g run Countries that focus on problem-solving, particularly those that encourage creative & critical thinking skills, strategies, & the like, essentially gravitate toward the head of the pack (in most measurable categories). It's a natural & sometimes intentional consequence.
Countries that excel at problem-solving encourage critical thinking as well as factual learning
1. Lack of deterrence is what permits it to continue.
What exists to perpetuate these occurrences?
Lack of deterrence.
2. 18 you are recognized as an adult and have adult responsibilities. I have said for years the drinking age should be lowered. If you can vote at 18 if you can smoke at 18 if you can be issued a rifle and deployed overseas at 17 18 then you should be able to drink. If you can enter a legal binding contract at 18 such as a car or student loan, you should be able to drink.
My highschool days I partied out in the woods with friends. Not a dozen or handful of friends. Picture 50-100+. We all drank... there was an allure about it. Once I hit 21... it wasn't as fun anymore. No allure existed. So what big deal you can drink...
However, it is seen as 18 year olds lack the responsibility to be trusted to drink...
But... they're responsible enough to do the above and be charged as an adult?
I bought my first AR15 on my 18th birthday.
A colt carry handle 20 inch rifle.
2 years later, a company came out that produced a carbine the likes of which rivaled bushmaster and armalite. Black Rain Ordinance. That was the second AR I purchased. I saved up and sold a dirt bike to buy it. The colt was like 2k dollars after taxes. The Black Rain was almost 3k after taxes.
When I was 16 I got a Ruger Mini14 for my birthday. Fires the exact same cartridge as an AR15. Same barrel length and magazine capacity. Just different appearance. Today there are multiple carbine and rifle platforms that have the same capacity, same barrel lengths, same caliber, just different visual appearances. So banning an AR15 won't solve anything...
Banning magazine capacity won't solve anything. You can have 5 round magazines, it will only encourage more accurate placed shots. You could ban semi-autos and go to single shot bolt actions. You will only change the distance at which these scumbags will shoot from. You ban firearms completely the implement will change.
There needs to be a deterrence present.
At 13/14 I was allowed to go up by myself in the woods to shoot targets.
I had 1200 undeveloped acres for a backyard. Grab a rifle or shotgun and leave a note or call my father's cell phone to let him know. I even grabbed my orange hunting vest just in case someone was on our property or close by so I wouldn't be mistaken for a deer...
My little sister and I grew up with guns in a wood and glass cabinet... Not a multi thousand dollar steel safe.
Our parents were parents. Fair but strict. Neither of us ever made a threat with a firearm. Neither of us ever had the thought of committing a heinous act with a firearm. There was no allure or forbidden fruit approach.
I even had friends bring their rifles and shotguns when they would spend the weekend over.
We went up in the woods 2 3 4 of us at a time. Grab our weapons, our ammo, put them in cases or drag bags, hop on our quads or in one of my field cars and go up the logging trail to where my shooting range was...
That was 14 15 16 years old...to some or most here that will sound insane. I am only one who is vocal about it but that's how things were in rural Upstate NY in the early 00s...
If I went to a friend's house on the weekend... Same deal. Some of their parents wanted my weapons to go in their safe/cabinet. Some of their parents didn't mind the rifle/shotguns/ammo going in a closet... Some parents wanted to be present when we'd go shooting, some weren't.
The false equivalency that exists is all firearm and especially AR15 owners are all blood lusting kid killers isn't true. It isn't the weapon, the inanimate object that causes or promotes these vile acts.
I don't expect an honest discussion or conversation on this subject.
I suspect this post will be interpreted as malarkey. Or perceived as Blasphemy or insane... and it isnt...
Contrary to the group think... it isn't the weapon causing this.
The continuation of lack of deterrence, failed parenting, "mental health", and now as it has been reported, ineptitude within the FBI after this scumbag was reported...
There are many factors present. To focus on the weapon is short sighted. You wish upon a shooting star to make all firearms and ammo and knowledge to create them to disappear vanish, you have solved Nothing.
Some will say well you can't kill as many with a knife or bomb or car/truck blunt force objects... That proves my point for me in not solving this problem.
The focus should be on the incentive that exists to perpetuate these heinous vile acts.
The focus should be on safe guarding our communities and schools. Not divisive fighting pro gun anti gun rhetoric.
The focus should be on failing to follow through with investigations into those making menacing comments and threats of violence. There's no excuse for threats. Some may argue well, how do you differentiate between a joke and a threat?
You don't joke about shooting people schools or innocent defenseless children.
Does the age need to be increased to buy firearms?
No.
Why?
The focus is in the wrong direction.
You will merely create an allure...
In case the anti firearm crowd hasn't noticed, talks of stricter gun control promotes sales. Why? Because what's here today may not be available tomorrow. Simple logic. Buy what you can while still legal. Especially true for those that are observant and those who are not ignorant of history.
If you want to solve these plaguing issues, you'd want to Protect Life. Preserve Liberty. Ensure a future pursuit of happiness. Even if those pursuits are different from yours. That isn't meaning attacking innocent children in a school. That means if you fear or do not like guns you don't buy them. You don't force others to accept your views opinions and feelings... it isn't about what's "fair"
There never should ever have been a school shooting. Never. There's no excuse rhyme or reason for it.
None whatsoever.
As a gun owner who has some disdain for the semi auto rifle and its aficionados due to the mindset of so many I have met in person and talked with on the net, I am to the point I have to agree with the concept of arming schools. But this is a sad admission of the road the NRA and the gun cultists have led us down more than anything else. I needed nothing but a rifle and a shotgun for most of my life. Shotgun was more than adequate for dealing with potential intruders ( and has never been needed ) , and afforded comfort while driving on the road. But when the nutters started shooting up places on a regular basis,I got a handgun to have if I am somewhere and something like this starts to occur. So I armed up to prevent myself not from ordinary criminals, but from the gun nutters.
Now,thanks to the NRA ,we live in a world in which we will soon shop for bulletproof accessories for our children, and have armed men roaming the halls of our schools, with the inevitable accidental shooting of a kid pulling something from his backpack that an ex military school guard mistakes for a gun. And the gun cultists pretend they cant see the connection between the ready availability of weapons capable of large ammo capacity and rapid fire and nutters choosing them to slaughter as many people as possible.
We keep being told there is no way to fix this except for arming the schools, and yet as far as I know we would be the ONLY civilized nation that needs to do this, save Israel dealing with terrorists that attack them almost daily. Specifically because we are the only civilized nation that chooses to make getting the weapons most used in these attacks readily available no matter how many kids get killed. We just cant seem to get a handle on what every other non two bit country in the world can, for some reason.
Having to arm our schools is a sign of the sick society the NRA and the gun cultists have turned us into. But it does appear to be the best method, this far down the drain as we are.
America has let it's guard down on the false sense of security government has fed you and me.
Since before this nation was fought for, savages roamed among us. Government does not want us to fight back.
Time to teach our kids at an early age, all about guns. Educate them about guns as much as you do to spell the word firearm and add and multiply, to know how many rounds you got left before a reload.
The more gun education in the minds of the young, the more comfortable we will be with seeing a sidearm holstered on the hip by the public. It is going to happen. A gun in everyone's hand returning fire, deters the cowards.
No, I don't think it is. Eventually the young people are going to take guns away from the old people. They have lived under the fear of being gunned down in their schools for decades. And they appear to be quite tired of it.
Your right to play with an AR 15 doesn't supersede their right to live.
Better buy more now! Every time there is a school shooting - the NRA and the gun manufactorers make more money.
Some people make the mistake of expecting normal mature thought from the kids in the gun cult , and find it hard to grasp a group of immature people who , due to chronological age , should be past the whiny me me me stage of emotional development and be able to understand adult concepts like how their rights affect others .
I figured it out after Newton , and no longer make the mistake of expecting anything but whiny "me-ism" from the adolescent gun cult. I had them admit openly to me after that event that their right to shoot at targets on a range or shoot hogs was more important to them than the rights of children to not get shot.
Because you falsely equivalated mass murdering scumbags with peaceable law abiding citizens...
You didn't focus on what exists to perpetuate these problems...
1. Gun free zones.
When seconds matter, help is minutes away.
2. Perpetuating these events in a chain reaction by not focusing on the scumbags background. The short sighted focus on the firearm used means 0.
Columbine-Boohoo we were bullied. Response-0 tolerance everyone is a victim reliant on an adult in the room to handle and solve life's problems.
Sandy hook-deranged. That scumbag was looking to do it as sport to see how many he could get! That's utterly disgusting. How do you reason/rationalize/comprehend someone that messed up?
Same with the did that who wanted to start a race war with the church shooting. How do you reason with someone that diabolical?
You can't. You simply cannot. There's no excuse for it.
Until a deterrence is present, until examples are made of these dirtbags, until people let go of their emotions and excuse these bad behaviors with failed practices that perpetuate and give incentive to carry out such heinous acts... You won't solve this.
The only 0 tolerance policy that should exist is 0 tolerance to harming children and one another.
What happened to being decent human beings. Respecting each other's differences in opinions rather than slinging insults that solves nothing.
You may feel "more guns" won't solve it.
Truth is... More law abiding, peaceable, non threatening individuals armed, trained, equipped with the implements knowledge (training) and courage to defend our children and communities are what it will take. Truth is, these dirtbags should be made examples of. I believe with that many witnesses, your 8th amendment rights, and rights to legal representation/defense should be forfeited.
There's no justification for this. None what so ever.
I've attended active/mass shooter classes provided by my sheriff's department.
10-15 minutes are about the average times these events last for with a 90% chance of self inflicted/suicide being what ends it. Because these vile scumbags are cowards and won't answer for their crimes.
That's the true threat to our society schools and communities. A mentality that can not be begged bought or reasoned with.
Your particular issue is not with Me BentBow and others.
You and our common issue is with these heinous vile diabolical subhuman pieces of crap.
Do we need to argue with one another or insult one another about it? Or come to an agreement that the current model doesn't work.
What particularly disgusts me, the FBI was notified in January about this individual.
They had 1 month to find this malignant tumor and remove him. Nothing was done. You may be under the impression that only the government should have firearms... Look at Ruby Ridge, Waco, Pulse, and now this event.
They would be the last I'd trust with weapons having that stellar record...
FBI was notified for the pulse shooter by my local gun store... yet he wasn't reported to NICS to be placed on a hold/denial until thoroughly investigated.
I have no issues with that. Come off sketchy, come off threatening, or make threats online to slaughter innocent kids, you get a denial on purchases. You get a visit from the FBI and local police agencies.
You don't get to be a scourge on society and extinguish life.
You don't get to make threats of slaughtering innocent kids. You don't joke about that. You get locked up and evaluated.
Having to arm our schools is a sign of the sick society the NRA and the gun cultists have turned us into. But it does appear to be the best method, this far down the drain as we are.
I don't know why you keep harping on the NRA. It is the sick society part of your statement that is the cause. The NRA or gun enthusiasts has not caused society to become sick.
Robert Noyce. Ever heard that name? Most haven't. He is the guy that founded Fairchild and Intel, without whom we would not be using computers or smart phones. To me, he is an example of a hero, the type of person we should be celebrating and remembering. Instead, no one knows who he is. But a lunatic shoots up a place, kills a bunch of people, then becomes front-page news. He's famous, almost like a hero.
I think if we started celebrating and focusing on the true heroes of our country, while suppressing the names of mass murderers and confining their acts to the corner of page 14 of the newspaper, maybe some of that sickness will start to heal.
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