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Old 02-07-2018, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,621 posts, read 19,191,292 times
Reputation: 21743

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
With all the countries in the world having tax payer funded healthcare systems in place its amazing America cant model a healthcare system on one of them.
All the countries in the world do not have a US Constitution, or 50 sovereign States, or 325 Million people, or more than 3,100 separately functioning economies (consider that in some of the 3,100+ economies a single person can earn $49,150 annually and still qualify for HUD Section 8 housing, while in some of the 3,100+ economies, if a single person earns $16,001 then they make too much money to qualify for HUD Section 8 housing).

All the countries in the world also do not have their currency used as an international reserve currency or international currency of trade, which necessitates an extraordinary amount of defense spending to maintain 11 carrier battle groups and 2 amphibious assault groups, plus 11 army divisions (and 9 National Guard Divisions), 16 brigades and 5 regiments.

If only the US were a small homogeneous nation-State like Norway (whose population of 5 Million is the size of Cook County, Illinois).

 
Old 02-08-2018, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,797,346 times
Reputation: 20675
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
With all the countries in the world having tax payer funded healthcare systems in place its amazing America cant model a healthcare system on one of them.
There are 195 countries in the world. To some extent most use taxes and other funds to fund some semblance of healthcare for some of the people, some of the time. The US is one of them.

About 60 countries have Universal Healthcare, healthcare as a Constitutional right. The US is not one of them.

No two countries execute Universal Healthcare the same way, beyond a mandate that everyone be insured via public, private or mixed bag insurance.
 
Old 02-08-2018, 02:43 AM
 
35,309 posts, read 52,359,800 times
Reputation: 31001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
All the countries in the world do not have a US Constitution, or 50 sovereign States, or 325 Million people, or more than 3,100 separately functioning economies (consider that in some of the 3,100+ economies a single person can earn $49,150 annually and still qualify for HUD Section 8 housing, while in some of the 3,100+ economies, if a single person earns $16,001 then they make too much money to qualify for HUD Section 8 housing).

All the countries in the world also do not have their currency used as an international reserve currency or international currency of trade, which necessitates an extraordinary amount of defense spending to maintain 11 carrier battle groups and 2 amphibious assault groups, plus 11 army divisions (and 9 National Guard Divisions), 16 brigades and 5 regiments.

If only the US were a small homogeneous nation-State like Norway (whose population of 5 Million is the size of Cook County, Illinois).
China and India seem to be getting affordable healthcare to their population.
 
Old 02-08-2018, 06:31 AM
 
13,984 posts, read 5,644,902 times
Reputation: 8637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I can't tell if you are saying this with a straight face...
Yep, I am totally serious.

Why should government in 20 states (or any state) be mandating that insurance companies must cover prosthetics? Government's only role in the insurance contract should be as referee between two parties should one of them knowingly/willingly violate the terms of the contract such that it harms the other party. If the insurance company says they will not cover prosthetics in their policies, and prosthetics are important coverage for you, then find a carrier who does insure prosthetics and contract for their risk mitigation services. Why does government need to mandate that which you as the consumer can choose for yourself?

Caveat emptor.

Don't take the policy if you do not like the coverage options. Find/negotiate a better level of coverage. Government is unnecessary meddler in such things.
 
Old 02-08-2018, 07:08 AM
 
13,984 posts, read 5,644,902 times
Reputation: 8637
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepoisson View Post
You realize that this is pretty much a death sentence for some people, right? Insuring people with pre-existing conditions has increased insurance rates dramatically, but it was necessary.
It negates the entire concept of risk mitigation and insurance. If an insurer must insure you regardless of preexisting condition and must also do so at an artificially low rate mandated by the government, adverse selection and the death spiral of the insurer is guaranteed.

Why buy insurance ahead of time if you know for a fact that an insurer must insure you no matter what? Wait until you get sick, buy insurance when you know medical expenses are coming, take the insurance provided discount, get better, dump insurance, wait for next medical issue, lather, rinse, repeat.

And this is EXACTLY what happened after the ObamaCare change occurred. Young and/or healthy people blew off buying insurance, correctly calculating how much cheaper the tax penalty was, and old and/or sick people were the only ones signing up. Adverse selection, prices started shooting up and insurers began dropping out of the marketplace. It was guaranteed to happen and did.

Private insurers cannot survive on their own with the combo of preexisting mandate and mandatory community based rates. Either by themselves violates virtually every rule of actuarial math, and together are simply an ironclad guarantee of insolvency.

Only government can "insure" under those rules because they have exactly zero revenue, cost or profitability concerns. Whatever they want to do, they can simply do by force. Nobody else has this luxury. So the preexisting mandate can only work if they are the provider. Nobody else can mathematically sustain that nonsense.

Essentially, if the preexisting thing is mandatory, having anything other than government as single, sole, solitary provider of health care/insurance makes no sense and simply delays the inevitable.
 
Old 02-08-2018, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,176 posts, read 19,251,449 times
Reputation: 14922
My insurer delayed payment of my heart operation for nine months in 2008 because I took a week of vacation for it (that I couldn't use anyway because it was too close to the end of the year) instead of turning the time in as sick leave. The operation had to be pre-approved by the insurance company before anything could happen. They employ thousands of people whose sole function is to help the company avoid having to meet their contractual obligations.

Health insurers add enormous cost to the system without any pretense of adding ofsetting benefits. UHC would be a far cheaper option, as evidenced by the fact that the United States is the only developed country that still doesn't have it. Our so-called "representatives" are bought and paid for by Corporate America, and the Health Insurance Industry is one of the biggest players.
 
Old 02-08-2018, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,797,346 times
Reputation: 20675
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
China and India seem to be getting affordable healthcare to their population.
China has about 1.4 billion people.

China embraced the concept of Universal Healthcare about 15 years ago. China set the goal of Healthy China 2020 which has since been revised to 2030.

It appears China has made the most progress in large urban areas ( where the jobs are) where basic health insurance is mandatory. The cost is paid for by employers and employees.

Insurance remains voluntary in smaller cities and rural areas of China.

India has a population of about 1.324 billion.

Public hospitals do not charge for services. Most hospitals are private. Patients are expected to pay out of pocket.

There appears to be a political commitment to move towards the goal of Universal Healthcare. It could be political rhetoric.

Last edited by middle-aged mom; 02-08-2018 at 08:02 AM..
 
Old 02-08-2018, 07:49 AM
 
13,898 posts, read 6,457,569 times
Reputation: 6960
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northman83 View Post
I got electricity going through my heart, from my left arm and out the right arm, 3 years back.

Called my doctor, 10 min later I took an EKG at his office, 30 min later I was at the ER for a full check up and spent the night in the heart ward.

Was checked in the morning, everything was OK. Walked down the stairs and said bye to the personal at the entrance and walked out.


Never seen a bill.


Thats healthcare in Norway.
I did the same thing and never saw a bill. That's really HC in America too.
 
Old 02-08-2018, 08:00 AM
 
18,848 posts, read 8,496,907 times
Reputation: 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
China and India seem to be getting affordable healthcare to their population.
IMO China will succeed since their central command understands modern money. India I am not so sure.

If China Can Fund infrastructure with Its Own Credit, So Can*We: Ellen Brown ~ Mike Norman Economics

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2017/...ual-bonds.html
 
Old 02-08-2018, 08:04 AM
 
18,848 posts, read 8,496,907 times
Reputation: 4140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Yep, I am totally serious.

Why should government in 20 states (or any state) be mandating that insurance companies must cover prosthetics? Government's only role in the insurance contract should be as referee between two parties should one of them knowingly/willingly violate the terms of the contract such that it harms the other party. If the insurance company says they will not cover prosthetics in their policies, and prosthetics are important coverage for you, then find a carrier who does insure prosthetics and contract for their risk mitigation services. Why does government need to mandate that which you as the consumer can choose for yourself?

Caveat emptor.

Don't take the policy if you do not like the coverage options. Find/negotiate a better level of coverage. Government is unnecessary meddler in such things.
I think ALL HC insurance companies should cover prosthetics. I just don't know if I'll need one tomorrow, next week or year.

My wife had no idea up to the morning of 1/1/17.
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