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Such an example does not mean much...heck, I can flip a nickel and 1 in 6,000 times it will land on the edge.
Why not stick to the facts? If you want to kill more people faster you will do much better with a long gun. If you want to horribly wound them in a way they are unlikely to recover, a decent .223 bullet does a better job (according to the US Military after extensive tests) than a .30 caliber.
Facts are difficult things. The combination of lax laws, poor background checks, stupid parents and guardians, large magazines AND more lethal bullets invites higher body counts.
Ask your local SWAT team how many revolvers they deploy.
Link please. A .223 is a fairly marginal round as a main battle rifle round. It was selected as the primary round for the weapon of choice for the military because it is low enough in power to be controlled in fully automatic fire (not an issue with the semi-auto AR-15) and because the cartridges weigh about 1/3 what a 7.62 round does, meaning a given soldier or marine can carry 3x the ammo load. .30 caliber (or larger) is the preferred weapon for vehicle mounting-where weight of the ammunition (and recoil) isn't a concern. And of course for longer range weapons where the loss of energy of the light .223 bullet (about 1/3 the weight of of a .30 bullet) is an issue. The military has considered larger calibers as the primary weapon many times due to the lack of lethality of the 5.56 round, and the frequent failures of "one shot stops". The tradeoff in reduced ammo loadout and more difficult controllability ruled it out. Not to mention the cost and logistics of swapping to another caliber.
One of the reasons an AR is so popular, especially with woman and young or new shooters, is the virtual lack of recoil. Various studies have shown a round between 6 and 7mm would be a more optimum choice for a military round.
We really SHOULD be thankful that these mass shooters seem to have forgotten 12ga shotguns. One round of buckshot has 9 or more individual balls, each larger in diameter (and heavier I believe) than the bullet from an AR. And unlike an AR that puts a 1/4 inch hole in someone, at close range a 12 gauge shotgun puts a hole in someone the size of a softball.
Last edited by Toyman at Jewel Lake; 02-24-2018 at 12:30 AM..
originally posted by vacanegro view post
and in the 70s we carried around speed loaders for our revolvers and we rarely had mass shootings and a bag of guns costs alot of money. when is the last time a terrorist didn't use an assault weapon
You never have to really defend your ideas as feasible by pointing to actual examples in the real world.
Everything is philosophy and conjecture.... "I'm right because I say so".
The functioning of anything resembling a society under the complete absence of government on a scale of anything bigger than your average Hippie commune is not only an unproven theory.... it goes against human nature.
And because Libertarian "Purists" and AnCaps take the concept too far to the extremes, and that's where they lose many Americans who might otherwise be sympathetic to Libertarian ideas.
Many people on both sides hold at least some Libertarian values.
If Libertarians were smart, they'd find a way to exploit our common values instead of insisting on unrealistic Libertarian "purity".
I love a lot of Libertarian ideas.....but I'm also a realist.
I'd rather have some Libertarianism than none.....no matter how self righteous haveing none makes me feel.
I've read many of your posts. You're pretty reasonable Bob...as far as statists go.
The one thing you have to consider is that being an anarchist isn't something we really choose.
It is what is.
Take the non-aggression principle. It's our Ten Commandments (even though it's just one). The reason I follow it isn't because it's easy, makes me feel good, or benefits me. On the contrary, it is difficult, frustrating, and requires discipline. It often results in things I'm not pleased with.
But it's logic and morality can't be disputed. Believe me, I've tried. It's actually an inside joke with many AnCaps. You try to get out but you can't.
I don't know if you caught Ben Shapiro's CPAC speech or not but in it he talked about how there isn't your truth or my truth...there's just the truth (Not that I'm endorsing Shapiro...he's a statist).
I can't get around the NAP. The reason why is that any preemptive force used by someone on a peaceful person (obviously) is the exact definition of slavery.
This is why we also go on and on about property rights.
If I go out into the unclaimed wild and cut down a few trees and make some chairs I have mixed my labor with previously unclaimed resources thus privatizing whatever is yielded from my labor.
If a man walks up to me and grabs the chair out of my hands at gunpoint (armed robbery) he has enslaved me. My labor was confiscated in the form of the fruits it yielded.
Therefore any transaction in which one party does not consent is slavery.
Taxation, laws, regulations, etc are all slavery. I know it's uncomfortable to think about but this isn't "my truth" it's the truth.
1.3 million ARs? Wrong. There's a LOT more than that
Its probably in the range of 10-15 million. Nobody knows for sure exactly because illegal arms are smuggled into America through our southern borders for decades, and that includes AR15's.
And in the 70s we carried around speed loaders for our revolvers and we rarely had mass shootings and a bag of guns costs alot of money. When is the last time a mass shooter didn't use an assault weapon ?
What is your solution Gomer ?
That LEO at the school couldn't stop the 19 YO with the superior firepower.
How about a mass killer.
That's like saying when was the last time a mass rapist didn't use his P. Come on guy.
223 or 5.56x45 or whatever you want to call it... is a high velocity cartridge, with low weight bullet ( though the military has increased the weight of the bullet the last 10 years, to get better long range performance ).
The 223 round, has the possibility of DOZENS of different bullets.. so its difficult to say what bullets are used by the shooter. Go to your local sports store, and you will see yourself, that individual calibers has dozens of different bullets to choose from, depending on what you want to do. Large game, small game, plinking, birds, varmints etc etc etc.
But, the normal FMJ bullets, will at high speed, often collapse the tip then tumble or fragment because of sentrifugal forces when it hits something.
This is often seen through the scope, when you have a barrel with to high twist rate ( to stabilize the projectile ) and high speeds, and the projectile will "explode" in a puff on the way to the target.
I love it so much that I feel a rush of blood going south at the thought if it.
But the complete absence of government equals the complete absence of a country.
I think you get it.
Do you think that arbitrary lines on a map truly represent the culture anyway? Even in small countries like Spain you have movements for regional independence like Catalonia and the Basques, and of course the Scottish independence movement in the UK, even in the US there's the perennial Texas seceding yarn and recently CA/OR/WA secession arguments.
All a "country" is, is an area of land that a government determines it owns, don't mistake a belief you "own" something as it's yours. You own your house until the government say they need it, then you don't own it any more, same applies to everything you have, you solely own it until the government says you don't.
Take issue du jour a mandatory gun buy back, well isn't that confiscation in principle, sure you get some cash for your property, but is it "just compensation"? Say you own an AR it's got a custom Lilja barrel, collapsing stock, Jewell trigger, and days of accurizing at a gun smith, is that just worth, say, $1000 (which is probably top end buyback price)? That's just cash investment not any other investment made in your time and effort. Proving that if the government wants your property (even constitutionally protected property) it can take it, oh you can refuse and you'll be imprisoned or killed, because you did not "permit" the government to take your property. Many would consider this fair, because, you know, you were going to be compensated, but is it fair? You own something, someone wants it, can they pay what they consider "fair" and if you refuse imprison or kill you?
That's every state in every nation regardless of perceived enlightenment. Doesn't matter if it's some Despot warlord or a proportional representative democracy. It's why rights under a government are a joke, your rights actually extend only as far as you're permitted by that government. Which is fine if you're happy with your permitted exercise of your permitted "rights" but not OK if you object to the capricious and arbitrary nature of what you can own for how long, and what you can do within reason.
It's why rationally I can't truly accept any state, because that's like voluntarily accepting slavery for no benefit than those that come from being enslaved. Sadly you can't reject the state, it won't permit you too.
Irony: a guy who believes consent can be given by getting shot out of a vagina (the Social Contract) calling another person's philosophy "fantasy".
I don't believe I've ever seen that happen.
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