Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
But you can't deny people healthcare based on your ideology.
How is my desire to be left alone denying anyone healthcare? I am not a healthcare provider, nor do I make any of the goods that are used in the delivery of healthcare. I have never stood between anyone seeking healthcare and their intended provider, and I have paid my own way for my healthcare since I was a teenager.
What about me choosing to not bankrupt my family denies anyone healthcare?
If people do not like facing the cards they are dealt, that should not force me to bankroll them. I grew up in a dirt poor, dysfunctional, alcoholic/addict home. I didn't just stumble into my resources, nor did anyone simply give them to me. I earned exactly everything I have, including my insurance, HSA and savings. Part of earning that was making choices. I could do bare minimum for insurance and HSA contribution, but I do the max allowed by law. Those contributions are money I could use for all sorts of other stuff that is more fun and rewarding, but that's how scarcity works. Bag of Money has X dollars in it, and I have to make choices.
My way of thinking does not obligate or harm anyone else, so why should anyone else's way of thinking harm or obligate me? Why must I be enslaved because you are either unwilling or incapable of properly making choices according to your own levels of scarcity?
You insult me about what you call my casual disregard for life, but your words clearly advocate your casual disregard for individual freedom. If other people wish to spend all the money in the world on healthcare, so goes your thinking, then I along with everyone else am duty bound to supplement their desires. It is part of the social contract I never signed but was made party to when I was born, so goes the thinking. I was born into slavery, bound to serve the wishes and desires of people who eschew the concept of economic scarcity. If anything is casual disregard for life, it is the thinking that everyone must serve their neighbor's whims and desires because f_u_ck them, they were born here and owe you.
You live in a society that would not exist without the forcing of pooled resources and you would not actually want to live in a society that went by "everyone for themselves".
I support Trump, but the Republicans on health care are on the wrong side of history. Yes to the boarder wall, yes to deport illegals, yes to limiting Muslims, but on health care they are just wrong.
Muslims? What are you talking about. the US Muslim population has remained stable for a hundred years, what is it with the right wing that they think it has been changing?
Tell me remingtonand, have you actually bothered your butt to look up the stats on Muslims in the USA? Have you viewed the historical data? OR (which i believe) are you just bleating what you hear from right wing propaganda.
THE US has about the same 3% of Muslims that we have had for generation after generation...
The wall is just noise and hype to stir up hate and fear. Controlling a border such as our southern one does not require a wall. Again we don't actually see a real increase in "illegal" population sure it goes up a little and down a little but if we actually held employers responsible it would deal with the problem much cheaper and much more effectively.
The "Wall" would only stop a few people, but holding employers accountable would remove the "carrot"...
funny thing is i never hear you trump folk saying "jail the employers who hire illegals" Where are the protests demanding employers be jailed and given massive fines for breaching the law.
Trump folk often lie and claim the left wants "Open borders", they need this lie because without it your party would not be able to keep you voting for them.
Think about it, under Obama deportations hit record levels and we saw declines in "illegals".... So that blows the whole "open borders" BS out the door. Yet i bet you will still believe libs want open borders......won't ya...
You live in a society that would not exist without the forcing of pooled resources and you would not actually want to live in a society that went by "everyone for themselves".
libertarians love to come here bang on about how evil gov is. Yet they are first in line when it comes to getting federal aid. They are all the same, they believe gov should be exactly tailored to their needs and not a bit more. One will want no tax, no police, no nothing. the next will want everything we have but no social safety nets... To me they are massive hypocrites, their real agenda to to take take take and never give back a nickel.
I am not worried about insurance company profits. I am correctly explaining that any private company differs from government in that private companies cannot simply print revenue into existence, so they must generate revenue from sales, and in order to continue existing, revenue must exceed cost, which we call profit. No business except government can survive without profit. That's a simple economic fact.
Making that claim about me caring about insurance company profits is an appeal to ridicule fallacy in lieu of an actual rebuttal with any substance. Duly noted.
Back on topic...
The individual mandate forces people to purchase a private good and is anathema to any and every concept of freedom. It was also poorly designed because the government didn't want to appear as tyrannical as they were being, so they kept it too low for it to properly scare/coerce the intended audience of the young and healthy. It should have been double what premiums would cost, then it might have properly frightened/coerced people into buying a product that preexisting/community pricing rules told them they didn't actually need. But that would have shone too bright a light upon the tyranny of it all, so the government pussed out, made the individual mandate way too easy to avoid, and then made lofty speeches about how we owed each other this contribution of buying what Obama told us to buy.
Ironically, it was those same millennials and Gen Y'er youngsters that gave him majority votes who blew him off the most. Adverse selection. You can play your appeal to ridicule game with me for pointing it out, but that won't change the truth of what I am saying. The tyranny of ObamaCare was bad government to begin with, and how cowardly and fecklessly they wrote it to make it even remotely politically viable just made it even worse. A plan so stupid, it could only come from government.
We have public schools. We force parents to send their children to school. Socialism? Yes. We all pay for it. There are still private school options. I don’t see Republicans running on ending the school mandate.
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
Before long, in most rural areas, the only person with any advanced medical education will be the pharmacists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
I guess the rural areas are getting what they voted for. Good and hard.
ObamaCare has zero to do with how many people with medical education work anywhere - Rural areas are losing their hospital because of ObamaCare. They already lost what private insurance they had and are forced onto ObamaCare plans that don't have doctors or hospitals in their area.
We have public schools. We force parents to send their children to school. Socialism? Yes. We all pay for it. There are still private school options. I don’t see Republicans running on ending the school mandate.
And there it is...because we have public schools and public roads, anything the government does is proper and correct because well, public schools and public roads.
The article said now rural resident in the surrounding county(s) of Ashville will have to drive.....20miles to the hospital. That's about the distance it is where I live.
"At that point, Mission will provide birthing services only at its locations in Asheville and Marion. That means women in rural counties will have to drive at least 20 miles to give birth and — if they want to be able to see the same providers in the delivery room they saw throughout their pregnancies — to get prenatal care. "
Of the 15 hospitals with a maternity ward in the 19 county Asheville area, 4 are closing. So that's 11 maternity facilities within a 19 county area with a maximum of ~ 20-50 mile drive.
For crying out loud, pull up a North Carolina map.
It is 76.4 miles from Franklin where the labor and delivery unit closed to Asheville. That's an hour an fifteen minute drive if you live in Franklin. Many live miles outside of Franklin.
Asheville is 45 minutes Brevard, where another labor and delivery unit closed. And that's if you are starting in Brevard.
These hospitals are not 20 miles or 20 minutes away.
-- It's an expansion of an existing program. No new bureaucracy needs to be created.
-- Private insurance is not put out of business. They can sell "Medigap" insurance.
-- Gov't subsidies can be provided to the poor for Medigap coverage, similar to the subsidies for Obamacare now.
-- Medicare has the lowest overhead of any health benefit system. HMO's and PPO's charge more because they want to make a profit.
-- For most people the extra Medicare payroll tax will be less than their private premiums now
-- MFA doesn't have to be implemented all at once. It can be done incrementally to avoid disruption, i.e., start by lowering the Medicare age from 65 to 55. Several years later drop it again to 45, etc.
Not great but it’s a start.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
