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Just a heads up. After the vote I will be putting up a new sticky thread for post vote discussion. This thread will remain but will no longer be a sticky. Carry on!
But witness testimony IS evidence that we are allowed to consider. That is all I'm saying. All this 'no evidence' is incorrect when it comes to Ford.
Witness testimony is just that. It is not evidence. I don't know how anyone can believe Ford given that all the people who she said were there - said they weren't, and her best friend doesn't know what she's talking about. Must have gotten one of her 54 sexual partners before college mixed up somehow.
What success are you talking about? Corporate judges on the supreme court is not a success for 99.9% of the population because they serve their donors and ensure that it is impossible to run for office and win without begging the donor class for money. How do you personally benefit from this? Do you donate at least half a million per election cycle to the candidates who serve you?
Senate Republicans deserve kudos for demonstrating that they have the courage, the passion and the fighting spirit to stand up to the leftist mob, together with their mass media enablers. These Republican Senators have typically capitulated to these forces in the past, so this is a really big deal.
It appears that the Democrat left orchestrators of this character assassination campaign are stunned that Senate Republicans and Brett Kavanaugh did not capitulate.
Two exceptions are Jeff Flake and Lisa Murkowski, both of who did capitulate and who have been a demonstration of quaking fear and accommodation to the leftist mob. Flake in the end appears to be poised to vote yes, but not before engaging in every sort of vacillation seemingly imaginable first. Murkowski will vote "Present," which is better than no. But her speech was at the core a capitulation to the pressure of the leftist mob. Both of these two should be ashamed of themselves.
The rest of the Republican Senators have aquitted themselves remarkably well. It seemingly never occurred to them to fight back against this sort of vile slander campaign by the Democrats before Trump took office. So it appears that Trump the fighter is rubbing off on these Senators and not a moment too soon. This is a major change in how politics is likely to be conducted in the US Senate going forward. If you lean right, it is long past time and it is cause for real heartfelt celebration. If you lean left, you might be thinking that this is one of your worst nightmares realized. If you are in the latter camp, you need to get some new and better dreams.
I would give The Donald the credit for encouraging the GOP Leadership to grow some balls.
He's from NYC and doesn't take any s**t from anyone!
I guess I won if that's your response to my post, thank you
Yes. You won. Bigly. That's what this is really about. It's not about a woman who probably is a victim of multiple sexual abuses interspersed with consensual promiscuity, that decades later, have blurred and blended, making total ACCURATE recall next to impossible.
It's about you and your left loyalty winning each and every time, no matter the lies and twists it takes to get there. It's not about the real issue of sexual abuse and how far this has set back the progress of women's rights.
Congratulations on your big win, 2sleepy. That's what it's about. Its certainly not about a man being found guilty of an accusation that has ZERO solid proof. Your links that you post (thanks - they've been posted many times, but rock on) do not change fact, and they don't change presumption of innocence.
They won't enjoy it for long. It has messed up the process for years to come for both sides of the aisle.
Republicans warned Democrats against changing the rule but Dems ignored their warnings, some even taking pleasure in it. The plan was that Democrats were going to make sure that Hillary would win the presidency so to them changing the rule was a non issue. It came back to bite them.
I couldn't find a way to believe one more than the other. I still find it hard to believe Ford would testify as she did if she weren't telling the truth. On the other hand, if Ford was lying or not correct about Kavanaugh assaulting her, it isn't hard to understand that Kavanaugh would react the way he did. If Kavanaugh is guilty, it isn't hard to understand that Kavanaugh would react the way he did.
Ultimately, I (like Collins) am a strong believer in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the presumption of innocence until proven guilty." Though something seems to smell awfully bad here, without some proof of Kavanaugh's guilt beyond Ford's claim, on what grounds do you declare Kavanaugh guilty?
Regardless, I am still disappointed so many Republican Senators are supporting Kavanaugh. Not because Ford should be believed instead, but because of how Kavanaugh handled himself, for what Kavanaugh himself acknowledged he should have handled better. Reminds me much of our last election. We really should be able to do better in terms of getting better qualified candidates to assume responsibilities of these highest levels; POTUS, Senators, judges. Much better.
Agree, one hundred percent. Kavanaugh did not look judicial. And his policies are terrible. But the democrats made it about an unproven allegation. We need better SCOTUS nominees, and better Senators, on both sides of the aisle. The whole thing is a mess. We're going in the wrong direction. My disappointment with the democrats is they are not holding the high ground. Nobody gets points for character assasination, even for a just cause. Means matter as much as ends.
Ford's allegation was credible, but the timing makes it political. Then there's the Avenatti thing. If it's credible, investigate it and impeach Kavanaugh. Something that big would still have witnesses. But there's a timing problem with that accusation too. And last night, democrats read stories of sexual assault survivors into the record. That's a flat-out, "Whoa. Full stop. You're just wrong. Don't go there." I mean, imagine a murder trial where the prosecutor gets to say, "Before I get to the evidence against the accused, I'd like to warm up the jury with a hundred anguished stories from relatives of murder victims across the country, from over the past twenty years. Not interested in creating prejudice against the accused. I just want to let everybody know how bad murder is, from all these other cases everywhere. That's fair."
I mean, come on, folks. Take a step back and breathe. You're losing the middle ground here, people who believe in rights and the Constitution and all that fun stuff. Yes, the scoundrel escapes sometimes. Our system is designed that way, to protect innocent people who might otherwise be railroaded. Not perfect, but the best we can do.
You have every right to find him believeable. I did not.
But witness testimony IS evidence that we are allowed to consider. That is all I'm saying. All this 'no evidence' is incorrect when it comes to Ford.
Witness testimony was the evidence. I believed her. You believed him. That's our right.
There was no photo evidence of Franken abusing anyone sexually. None.
A self proclaimed victim, the accuser, gives testimony. If she said you or I molested her, would you call that 'evidence' one of us did it.
She gave nothing, nothing, that Kavanaugh could use to prove he wasn't the molester. Unless he was out of the country that summer. You can certainly believe her because you want to or she sounded sincere, whatever. To the extent independent evidence matters, he wasn't the guy.
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