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Old 10-20-2018, 12:44 PM
 
29,554 posts, read 9,751,103 times
Reputation: 3473

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
I think we were all misinformed by feminists and liberals. So no, it was both a problem giving women the vote then feminist and liberals came along later and misinformed.
Right again, and no doubt "making America great again" is to go back to before the notion that women be treated equally, respectfully, even existed, as these feminists and liberals seem to think is appropriate today. If only we could correct that problem of giving women the vote. Right, but I still think allowing them to get educated and actually participate in the workforce was an even bigger mistake. Like men don't have enough of an issue competing among themselves. Now women too? What's next we have to wonder...

Can't make America great again with a woman president. That's for sure!

 
Old 10-20-2018, 12:49 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,889,932 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Right again, and no doubt "making America great again" is to go back to before the notion that women be treated equally, respectfully, even existed, as these feminists and liberals seem to think is appropriate today. If only we could correct that problem of giving women the vote. Right, but I still think allowing them to get educated and actually participate in the workforce was an even bigger mistake. Like men don't have enough of an issue competing among themselves. Now women too? What's next we have to wonder...

Can't make America great again with a woman president. That's for sure!
I disagree with your premise. And there's nothing really equal or all that respectable about feminism.

I don't speak for make "America great again" but it's certainly not about taking anything back before about the 1980s.
 
Old 10-20-2018, 04:54 PM
 
9,329 posts, read 4,149,827 times
Reputation: 8224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
There seems to be a lot of controversy around this issue. Although there is little debate that women are not responsible for sexual assaults, do they have a duty to protect themselves? If so, how? Avoiding being alone? Not drinking to excess, avoiding skimpy clothing, what? Many individuals of both genders have expressed this opinion. And if she doesn't protect herself in whatever way is deemed necessary or fitting, is the perpetrator less at fault if an assault happens?

Should you be asking, perhaps: Does a man have a duty to refrain from sexual assault?
 
Old 10-20-2018, 09:39 PM
 
Location: In my skin
9,230 posts, read 16,557,613 times
Reputation: 9175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks View Post
There seems to be a lot of controversy around this issue. Although there is little debate that women are not responsible for sexual assaults, do they have a duty to protect themselves? If so, how? Avoiding being alone? Not drinking to excess, avoiding skimpy clothing, what? Many individuals of both genders have expressed this opinion. And if she doesn't protect herself in whatever way is deemed necessary or fitting, is the perpetrator less at fault if an assault happens?
There are two separate issues here. Responsibility for personal safety and responsibility for rape. Armchair advocates can't seem to distinguish one from the other.

We all take steps, daily, to avoid victimization; we lock our doors at night and don't leave our wallets/purses in the car in plain view. Sexual assault is no different. There are ways to lower your risk. Keep an eye on your drinks. Don't get pickled when you're out alone. Don't go home with someone you just met. These are common sense precautions that have certainly saved a few women. Obviously, it won't save all women, but lowering your risk is still a worthy effort. Not doing so doesn't mean the perp is less at fault. We don't try/convict victims of sexual assault. But it is foolish to engage in those behaviors. If you do and are assaulted, I'm not going to blame you for rape. I am going to wonder why the heck you KNOWINGLY put yourself at risk. Given how many victims beat themselves up for doing so, they, too, recognize how foolish it is.

"Victim blaming" is a term that has been worn out and abused, in large part, by people who favor outrage over prevention.
 
Old 10-21-2018, 12:07 PM
 
29,554 posts, read 9,751,103 times
Reputation: 3473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
Should you be asking, perhaps: Does a man have a duty to refrain from sexual assault?
Feminist!
 
Old 10-21-2018, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,681 posts, read 9,499,679 times
Reputation: 23016
Even as a male, I can see some of the the unwinnable situations that women have to deal with in this country.

If they are distant, cold, and refrain from talking to any male, society calls them the b-word. If they are warm, welcoming, and nice then men confuse it with flirting and sending the wrong signals.

It will all come down to a consent card or app, proving that it was consensual. Sadly most women don’t like this idea as sex is “suppose to be spontaneous” instead of planned or expected.
 
Old 10-21-2018, 05:48 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,124 posts, read 17,087,061 times
Reputation: 30278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Even as a male, I can see some of the the unwinnable situations that women have to deal with in this country.

If they are distant, cold, and refrain from talking to any male, society calls them the b-word. If they are warm, welcoming, and nice then men confuse it with flirting and sending the wrong signals.

It will all come down to a consent card or app, proving that it was consensual. Sadly most women don’t like this idea as sex is “suppose to be spontaneous” instead of planned or expected.
I am male but sex must, to some extent, be planned and expected. Men don't get pregnant; women do.
 
Old 10-21-2018, 06:14 PM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,204,480 times
Reputation: 6999
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
Even as a male, I can see some of the the unwinnable situations that women have to deal with in this country.

If they are distant, cold, and refrain from talking to any male, society calls them the b-word. If they are warm, welcoming, and nice then men confuse it with flirting and sending the wrong signals.

It will all come down to a consent card or app, proving that it was consensual. Sadly most women don’t like this idea as sex is “suppose to be spontaneous” instead of planned or expected.
All that's required is being aware of your partner. If she goes quiet or seems a little distant, just ask if everything's okay. I believe most men pay attention and care that a woman is into everything that's happening. That's always been my experience. When with a new guy I've often had him check in with me as things go farther, a simple "is this okay?" or "does this feel good?" assures consent and doesn't have to stop the momentum. I've always found it a turn on when a guy cares about how I feel. Even in consenual dominant/sub experiences there are ground rules and the sub has ultimate control over what happens.

I keep repeating this because it's important, most men who admit to rape/attempted rape were not confused about consent. They were completely aware that she did not want it. The studies aren't just convicted rapists. The majority who have admitted to repeat rapes have never been questioned by the police. Women are not reporting these assaults. I'm not saying confusion never happens, but I don't think those situations are anywhere near as common as men who simply don't care whether she consents or not. Claiming confusion afterwards would make sense, but it doesn't mean it's true.

This is why we need to talk about sexual assault. If it was better understood by both men and women, we stand a better chance of stopping it. Most men are good people who shouldn't be viewed as monsters for having a sex drive. There's nothing wrong with that, most men are perfectly capable of controlling themselves if a woman doesn't want it and stop when asked to. Men do get raped to, it's usually not taken very seriously but many of them have struggled with it, whether the perpetraor was a man or a woman. Everyone deserves respect and to have control over their own bodies.

Last edited by detshen; 10-21-2018 at 06:37 PM..
 
Old 10-21-2018, 09:13 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,889,932 times
Reputation: 6556
Quote:
Originally Posted by detshen View Post
All that's required is being aware of your partner. If she goes quiet or seems a little distant, just ask if everything's okay. I believe most men pay attention and care that a woman is into everything that's happening. That's always been my experience. When with a new guy I've often had him check in with me as things go farther, a simple "is this okay?" or "does this feel good?" assures consent and doesn't have to stop the momentum. I've always found it a turn on when a guy cares about how I feel. Even in consenual dominant/sub experiences there are ground rules and the sub has ultimate control over what happens.

I keep repeating this because it's important, most men who admit to rape/attempted rape were not confused about consent. They were completely aware that she did not want it. The studies aren't just convicted rapists. The majority who have admitted to repeat rapes have never been questioned by the police. Women are not reporting these assaults. I'm not saying confusion never happens, but I don't think those situations are anywhere near as common as men who simply don't care whether she consents or not. Claiming confusion afterwards would make sense, but it doesn't mean it's true.

This is why we need to talk about sexual assault. If it was better understood by both men and women, we stand a better chance of stopping it. Most men are good people who shouldn't be viewed as monsters for having a sex drive. There's nothing wrong with that, most men are perfectly capable of controlling themselves if a woman doesn't want it and stop when asked to. Men do get raped to, it's usually not taken very seriously but many of them have struggled with it, whether the perpetraor was a man or a woman. Everyone deserves respect and to have control over their own bodies.
That's so weird stuff lol. Verbal consent is useless in the face of false allegations.
 
Old 10-22-2018, 12:16 AM
 
6,790 posts, read 8,204,480 times
Reputation: 6999
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
That's so weird stuff lol. Verbal consent is useless in the face of false allegations.
Maybe if you stopped whining about feminists and liberals so much you'd get to experience sex for yourself. Then you could learn that concern for a partner's enjoyment is not weird at all, it's actually normal and appropriate to make sure someone likes what you are doing.
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