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I've never done it =/= it never happens. Bad argument. If a man made this argument, you'd know it was bad. It's bad when us women make it, too. Trust me, some women behave badly.
So I was right. I'm not complain about the random girl at the bar swiping me down there though.
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It's not imaginary. It's real to them. And yeah, a lot of us DO discuss our sex lives in all sorts of detail with other women. If we felt bad, or used, violated or disgusted with an encounter, our close female friends may wind up knowing.
So I was right again.
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Look...if a guy violates my consent in some "grey area" fashion, and he is made aware of it, how he responds to that speaks volumes to his character. Deny and attack, call her a liar, say her boundaries are some "imaginary" bs you cannot be expected to know or care about? You are broadcasting the fact that you do not care about the perspective of another human being. But given that I believe you're the one who pointed out that in one case described here, a consent violator was disrespecting the woman's fiance, I think you care far more about the personhood of men than that of women. Like it or not, it's the impression you give. You also basically tried to say that the difference between consensual sex and rape is whether the man is attractive. Which is also incredibly wrong and backwards thinking.
I believe that guy's motive was to disrespect her male finacee most of all rather than her.
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If you are not successful with women, I promise you...whatever you look like is only the tip of the iceberg. If I picked up on the vibes you put out there, I'd avoid you like plague. The message I'd be reading is, "Having to think about another person's feelings and rights just makes me so angry, if only I were a very attractive looking man, she'd shut the hell up and let me use her and be happy about it." If that is not the message you WANT to be projecting, you might consider adjusting your message. It's the one that some of us here are reading.
Well you could've worded it nicer, but that's basically the reality of the matter lol. A female's consent mostly hinges on a male being highly physically attractive and little else. I consider myself pretty attractive but apparently not highly attractive.
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I also believe it is important to make the distinction between:
...a person who made a mistake, read the situation incorrectly, acted in ignorance of what good consent looks like, etc. Human error should be handled with human compassion, but owning that you erred becomes important in that situation. Being on the defensive isn't generally a good look. Unfortunately I don't blame anyone who is, knowing the stakes as I do.
...and a habitual, unrepentant predator who will continue to violate others and has zero remorse and/or does not believe and resists accepting that they have done anything wrong.
I can't speak for all men but myself and a lot of us have long been taught to feel sort of guilty for having a casual sexual encounter with a female, as if they are being used and want real feelings involved, or that they are so fragile and sensitive. I now believe just about the opposite. Females are just as much using males for sex and it's all stacked in females' favor, and they are not fragile or sensitive at all.
Also, even though as a male I know and believe an encounter is consensual, there's always in the back of the mind of her regretting it for some reason and making a false accusation, complaint or some claim like pregnancy arising from the encounter. So afterwards for a male it's kind of like the feeling of fleeing the scene of crime that wasn't really one.
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I think that a lot of people make mistakes. I've made mistakes. I've been the victim of other people's mistakes. In my own assault story, I'd be far, far more satisfied if the man were to appear momentarily in my life to say, "Hey, look, I have learned and grown a lot since that night and I want you to know that I did not understand at the time that what I was doing was wrong. I do now. I'm really sorry." ...THAT would be so much better, than some kind of "justice" scenario where he ends up beaten, killed, or imprisoned. I think that a lot of women wish for something that seems impossible, for a man who has violated her consent to understand the basic fact that he did harm or wrong to another human being, to be genuinely sorry and to try not to do it again.
But it sometimes seems the very notion that they should be expected to consider women's humanity is triggering to some guys, makes them angry and defensive. Just as much as the idea that we should try to forgive, educate, and show compassion to violators who basically just made mistakes, seems to trigger and enrage some women. So long as everyone is pizzed off and antagonistic, we get nowhere.
You certainly hit the nail on the head with feminist and many women.
Do you have a duty to reasonably protect yourself by limiting your risk of being a victim of a personal crime by making good decisions?
Unfortunately, a lot of people here will say no.
I say yes. If an offense allegedly happened and it comes down to just a he said/she said, then the "victim" behaving consistent with a consenting person likely means the victim acted negligently or recklessly if they are claiming they were not consenting.
This is what I've been saying but people go to the extremes when they hear it because they don't want women held accountable for anything that they choose to do.
They don't understand that it isn't about blame. It's about accountability and being responsible so they're not placing themselves in a vulnerable situation.
I pray they don't have daughters.
I was sexually assaulted in the house where I slept, with my mother in the next room, by her long term boyfriend - in the backyard by our back neighbor, in the garage by our next door neighbor.
When I left home, I worked in the music business, where I spent many nights with groups of men (in bands, and road crews, as I was an engineer), went to bars by myself, walked the city streets (LA, NY and Sydney) at all hours by myself, got pretty drunk and pretty high, never assaulted once.
Most women (most everyone, for that matter) are assaulted by people they know. It's statistically safer to hang out in bars, wear skimpy clothing, and get intoxicated than it is to stay home in your jammies with people you know. That's the actual reality.
I'd like to see you explain how women can take responsibility for that. And how I was accountable for those guys' actions, in our nice suburban street. In the broad daylight.
Yes, men everywhere are rubbing against everybody like dogs. All day long. They only stop for the raping and pillaging. Then they go to work where they pinch bottoms and stare at boobs. As they walk to the subway they catcall and make kissy noise with obscene hand gestures. They then stand outside the women's bathrooms and try to trip them so they can see up the skirts. After a long day, they head to the bars with roofies and drug every woman they can find and take them behind the bar by the dumpster.
<<sarcasm>>
WTH do people live to believe this carp??
So many man haters on this board. So delusional in their feedback loops.
Why do you equate saying that most women have had such an experience with saying that most men are perpetrators? Nobody ever said that. Men who do such things will do them to any woman who crosses their path. In other words, a few bad guys, but boy, do they get around.
I was sexually assaulted in the house where I slept, with my mother in the next room, by her long term boyfriend - in the backyard by our back neighbor, in the garage by our next door neighbor.
When I left home, I worked in the music business, where I spent many nights with groups of men (in bands, and road crews, as I was an engineer), went to bars by myself, walked the city streets (LA, NY and Sydney) at all hours by myself, got pretty drunk and pretty high, never assaulted once.
Most women (most everyone, for that matter) are assaulted by people they know. It's statistically safer to hang out in bars, wear skimpy clothing, and get intoxicated than it is to stay home in your jammies with people you know. That's the actual reality.
I'd like to see you explain how women can take responsibility for that. And how I was accountable for those guys' actions, in our nice suburban street. In the broad daylight.
First, let me say I'm extremely sorry you endured that. I can only imagine how horrific that was for you.
But please don't think this is all lumped together. Bad things can still happen even in what we think is the safety of our own home.
That doesn't mean measures shouldn't be taken to increase the odds of our safety when we're not.
I don't care where a woman hangs out or how she's dressed - it doesn't give a man the right to be grabby.
I do care that some women have imbibed until they're unable to make smart choices or until they black out. That's irresponsible.
People keep arguing with ridiculous comments whenever I post this but I cannot believe any one of you would turn to your college-aged daughter and tell her it's okay to drink that much.
First, let me say I'm extremely sorry you endured that. I can only imagine how horrific that was for you.
But please don't think this is all lumped together. Bad things can still happen even in what we think is the safety of our own home.
That doesn't mean measures shouldn't be taken to increase the odds of our safety when we're not.
I don't care where a woman hangs out or how she's dressed - it doesn't give a man the right to be grabby.
I do care that some women have imbibed until they're unable to make smart choices or until they black out. That's irresponsible.
People keep arguing with ridiculous comments whenever I post this but I cannot believe any one of you would turn to your college-aged daughter and tell her it's okay to drink that much.
The reality is that many many young people (all age people, actually) drink too much. That's not going to change anytime soon. What we should be doing, IMHO, instead of lecturing women about their drinking habits, is to teach kids to look out for each other. We should teach them that if they see a passed out girl on a couch at a party, or a guys egging on a drunk dude to do something stupid, that the best course of action as a decent human being is to get the inebriated home and safe. Call an Uber, a taxi, drive them. If you see a situation get out of hand, do something about it. If there's a designated driver, have them watch out for those incapacitated. There's often enough non-nefarious people about to prevent bad situations. It's when they don't speak up that things progress and take a nasty turn.
I wouldn't tell my college aged daughter it was okay to get smashed, I don't know why that would be necessary, firstly, and I don't know that my college aged daughter would ask me for permission if she's of age. But I would let her know that it's always okay to call for help or to get home. And I'd be a blazing hypocrite if I gave her any grief for doing it. And super naive to think she won't at some stage in her life. It happens to people even if they didn't intend it.
Regardless, you missed my point - which is that people are sexually assaulted far more frequently NOT indulging in "risky" behavior than when they do. You want women to be accountable. But for what exactly? Living life?
Assault by strangers is pretty rare. And they can be assaulted in the parking lot at the local Walmart going for milk in their fuzzy slippers.
Assault by known and trusted members of their community is not rare at all, and far more likely.
Please stop using the issue of sexual assault as a platform to bash "statists." It makes you look really bad.
No, I will continue to do so because if the definition of consent is bastardized at gunpoint (ala the social contract) it stands to reason that anyone can make up their own definition of consent at any time to suit their needs. She had on a short skirt. She smiled in my direction. She walked on my side of the street. She wanted it.
If consent meant consent all the time...we could drastically reduce the cases of legit rapes/sexual assaults (along with other violations of the non-aggression principle) because different definitions wouldn't apply based on persons, places, or other factors.
Ya see, if you have principles then you don't have to create alternate definitions and do other mental gymnastics to justify things that make no moral or logical sense in terms of consistency.
At the very least you'll have a ton more energy because your brain doesn't have a whopping case of cognitive dissonance all the time.
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