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FAIR includes the taxes that illegal aliens contribute. They cite $19 billion so CATO is lying! However illegals still cost us over $100 billion a year.
Untrue. CATO does not claim that FAIR failed to include taxes contributed by illegal aliens, they claim that FAIR undercounted taxes collected by failing to several things, including extra property taxes paid, an adjustiment for the actual tax rate for Medicare (FAIR used the wrong tax percentage), and including a more accurate the incidence of taxation. FAIR also completely ignored the additional economic activity created by illegal immigrants - an omission so obvious that it completely undermines the credibility of the FAIR article altogether. How can one plausibly quantity how much illegal immigrants "cost" if you don't even bother to include the economic benefit they bring? Imagine calculating what American worker "costs" the United States but completely failing to account for any of their economic activity or labor contribution. Totally absurd stuff.
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Originally Posted by Oldglory
FAIR did not count U.S. citizens as illegal immigrants either just another lie by CATO! The U.S. born kids of illegal aliens are a cost to be factored in as they wouldn't have been born here if their parents weren't here illegally in the first place. We paid for their births and illegal aliens collect welfare thru them. None of this would have happened if not for their parents being here illegally. These are costs ensued on an annual basis in the last couple of decades or so.
You claim that FAIR did not count US citizens but then acknowledge that benefits received by US born children of illegal immigrants - who are US citizens as much as you might wish it were not so - are factored in to the "cost" attributable to illegal aliens. So what CATO claimed was totally accurate.
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Originally Posted by Oldglory
CATO doesn't even seem to care that the bottom line is that illegal aliens are here in violation of our immigration laws which is the bottom line but they don't give a damn! Nor do they give a damn about them taking American jobs and resources. Their whole cite is full of nothing but lies and anti-Americanism to defend illegal aliens.
No. The CATO article does not "care" whether the illegal immigrants are here in violation of immigration laws because it is an economic analysis, not one driven by emotion as yours seems to be. When I see an economic analysis, I want to see the numbers, not whether the subject studied "gives a damn" unless there is some tangible and quantifiable fiscal impact that stems from damn giving.
And your complaint about CATO "going back to the 1800s" is misplaced because it is only mentioned to take to its logical conclusion the very argument that you make - e.g., that US born children of illegal immigrants should be counted as illegal immigrants for this analysis because "they would not be here but for the illegal immigration." CATO simply asks why FAIR argues that those U.S. citizen children should be counted as illegal immigrants for their fiscal cost analysis but "does not count the fiscal costs and benefits incurred by all of the descendants of illegal immigrants back to when the Federal government first created immigration restrictions in 1875." The point is that FAIR is being intellectually dishonest - as you are - by arguing that the progeny of illegal immigrants also should be counted as illegal immigrants yet fails to actually count all of the benefits and costs associated with the progeny of illegal immigrants in reaching its $100 billion conclusion.
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Another thing that CATO does throughout their lying garbage is switching from talking about illegal aliens to just using the word "immigrants". How in the hell is one to know who they are talking about?
The CATO article is quite clear who it is discussing. Calling it lying garbage just signals that you are unable to process fairly basic information.
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There are far more than 12 million illegal aliens in this country also. Just do the math.
CATO notes that FAIR's report is inconsistent (FAIR reports two different numbers) but that other sources disagree. Pew estimates there are 11.3 million illegal immigrants, the Center for Migration Studies (CMS) estimates that there are 11 million illegal immigrants, and the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) estimates there are 11.43 million illegal immigrants. Notably, CIS is FAIR's sister organization and they use a number over 1 million less than FAIR. The fact is that no one knows exactly how many illegal immigrants there were in 2017 when the FAIR report was published so one cannot "just do the math." However, when one survey is an outlier from all of the others by more than 10%, one can and should rightly consider those numbers with much skepticism.
CATO's analysis is clear and laid out for all to see. Your criticism of that analysis appears to be mostly driven by misreading or being unable to comprehend what was written, likely because your post is outcome-based and emotion-fuelled. FAIR, on the other hand, totally discredited itself primarily by failing to account for any economic activity generated by illegal aliens and counting US citizens as illegal aliens. The $100 billion is a lie, plain and simple.
I'm not a Democrat, but the embarrassment of making the US look like a bunch of fools globally aside, I'm ok with a wall financed by a foreign country, as promised.
According to the polls, most people (Democrats, Republicans, and others) do not want a wall funded by US taxpayers, even if we were just loaning money for its construction which would theoretically later be gratuitously reimbursed back by Mexico at some unknown date and using some unknown means.
Of course you can blame the democrats for making the wall the reason they allow a shut down instead of seeking a compromise.
What I disagree with is paying back pay to federal employees who are off work during the shut down. I even more against paying elected reps during a shut down.
If trump really cared about the wall, he would have negotiated in ernest and offer something real, like maybe the dreamers etc that the dems would exchange for the wall. With his stupid behavior, its clear that he just want his deplorable base to see him "take on" the dems. He has no real interest in building the wall or to secure the border. The deplorables are too stupid to know any of this. Just too stupid.
If trump really cared about the wall, he would have negotiated in ernest and offer something real, like maybe the dreamers etc that the dems would exchange for the wall. With his stupid behavior, its clear that he just want his deplorable base to see him "take on" the dems. He has no real interest in building the wall or to secure the border. The deplorables are too stupid to know any of this. Just too stupid.
Yup. Trump is far more interested in blaming the Democrats for not letting him build a wall than actually building a wall. This situation tailor-made for gullible, low-information voters.
I'm not a Democrat, but the embarrassment of making the US look like a bunch of fools globally aside, I'm ok with a wall financed by a foreign country, as promised.
According to the polls, most people (Democrats, Republicans, and others) do not want a wall funded by US taxpayers, even if we were just loaning money for its construction which would theoretically later be gratuitously reimbursed back by Mexico at some unknown date and using some unknown means.
This promise that mexico will pay back through some unknown means at some unknown point in the future......coming from a con man criminal like Trump? You'll have to be reallllyyyy stupid to buy into that.
This promise that mexico will pay back through some unknown means at some unknown point in the future......coming from a con man criminal like Trump? You'll have to be reallllyyyy stupid to buy into that.
I would also be OK if wall-supporting US citizens wanted to sign up for a voluntary, non-tax deductible contribution to wall funding with the agreement that they would be paid back for their contribution if Trump negotiates an otherwise revenue-neutral payment from Mexico to reimburse them.
If trump really cared about the wall, he would have negotiated in ernest and offer something real, like maybe the dreamers etc that the dems would exchange for the wall. With his stupid behavior, its clear that he just want his deplorable base to see him "take on" the dems. He has no real interest in building the wall or to secure the border. The deplorables are too stupid to know any of this. Just too stupid.
That has never been taken off the table, since the last time this went down over DACA.
Trump met their bluff and raised them double or nothing.
I would also be OK if wall-supporting US citizens wanted to sign up for a voluntary, non-tax deductible contribution to wall funding with the agreement that they would be paid back for their contribution if Trump negotiates an otherwise revenue-neutral payment from Mexico to reimburse them.
That's not a half-bad idea.
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