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The false narrative of "illegals only take the jobs American workers won't" never finishes that statement with its second clause: "for less than minimum wage."
Illegal labor is just another facet of corporate welfare.
The wealthy and privileged once again benefit at the expense of working Americans, and that's why it'll continue with no REAL effort to stem the flow of illegal workers, hired by the millions by "American" corporations.
Well as usual not the whole story.....
First, the OP - if Mexico is paying for the Wall, the government must be opened then. NOT. So that one is dispensed with.
Let's take a couple of the states with the highest number of illegals working in construction and hospitality - Texas and Florida. Both are Republican owned and have been forever (recent decades). Neither have e-verify. Both have population booms...so plenty of white, black and brown "Americans" are in these places.
But the Pols and People won't do e-verify. Why? Well, you are somewhat right in "corporate" welfare, but I think you need to know that these "corporations" are people (mitt romney aside). We're talking about well known pillars of the community - the people that hospital wings and parks and malls are named after. Those are the developers....who hire the illegals (through 3rd parties if possible) and use their labor.
The undoc workers are NOT working for peanuts...those who have skills are often making $16-$20 an hour...maybe more. True, they are not getting full benefits...but as a carpenter and remodeler who has worked "sub" for many big builders, I can assure you that Americans doing these jobs don't get anything. If it rained you don't make money. If the materials are held up you don't make money. If you hurt yourself you likely will never make money again (at framing)....
I did a lot of framing and trim work way back when...BEFORE there was undoc workers doing these jobs. I can assure you that we never made a living wage. Never made benefits. Those builders screw labor to the wall...and leave them hanging. That is their way. That's why you and others can crow about the cheap cost of housing in the South.
Now, if I want a house in Ma. - well, then, likely a French Canadian (American) or other such people are going to be the contractors...and they've made a living and a life out of it. BUT, those houses cost twice what one in the Sunshine State or Texas does.
There have already been many "tests" of your premise - that Americans could and would do these jobs. The results were staggering. In GA. they chased a lot of immigrants out...and the farmers tried to bus Americans to do the Ag work. I think maybe 10% lasted ONE DAY. A single day. True.
So, please, do your research. Maybe you want your children to hoe weeds in 95 degree humidity in GA, but most Americans don't. Maybe you want your children to do some of the most dangerous jobs on the planet (roofing, for example), but such "careers" are short lived and then a person ends up getting old too soon and with a broken body.
One example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.02d7ac6859e1
(Out of 500,000 unemployed Americans in NC)....
"97 percent of referred applicants were hired. But they don't tend to last. In 2011, 245 people were hired out of 268 referred, but only 163 (66.5 percent) of the hired applicants actually showed up to the first day of work. Worse, only seven lasted to the end of the growing season"
Seven people out of 100's of thousands. So who is right? You? Or reality?
Funny how all the Trumplings here who are advocating their wet dream of a Trump dictatorship are the same ones who threatened armed rebellion should Obama do the same. That's a new level of hypocrisy coming from that group of idiots.
This is so juvenile. We have no dream of a Trump dictatorship we just want our border secured as congress promised back in 2006 but didn't come through with and that is what Trump is trying to do. The hypocrisy is on congress back then which included Schumer and Obama who signed that bill themselves.
This is so juvenile. We have no dream of a Trump dictatorship we just want our border secured as congress promised back in 2006 but didn't come through with and that is what Trump is trying to do. The hypocrisy is on congress back then which included Schumer and Obama who signed that bill themselves.
wish that were true but ALL drumfs is trying to do is please his dwindling base and faux network and rash limburg and ann cowlter
wish that were true but ALL drumfs is trying to do is please his dwindling base and faux network and rash limburg and ann cowlter
Another juvenile post by a leftist. You don't think the Democrats are playing to their base of ethnocentric Hispanics who want open borders for their illegal amigos and amnesty for those all ready here and other clueless bleeding hearts? What's the difference? At least Trump is playing to law abiding Americans not illegal foreigners and their supporters. Trump doesn't have a dwindling base but feel free to pretend so if it makes you feel better.
wish that were true but ALL drumfs is trying to do is please his dwindling base and faux network and rash limburg and ann cowlter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory
Another juvenile post by a leftist. You don't think the Democrats are playing to their base of ethnocentric Hispanics who want open borders for their illegal amigos and amnesty for those all ready here and other clueless bleeding hearts? What's the difference? At least Trump is playing to law abiding Americans not illegal foreigners and their supporters. Trump doesn't have a dwindling base but feel free to pretend so if it makes you feel better.
Is that so? Trump was ready to sign the bill that the SENATE passed (and now refuses to vote on) UNTIL he got wind of Rush and Coulter dogging him over signing it.
If in the compromise to the shutdown a bill is passed with wording for enhanced security, incl a fence.... is that acceptable to those that want a wall. It is going to come to an eventual solution of agreeing for more enhanced border security, but without the word wall in there, but money is appropriated for general security enhancements. Would this be ok to those who want Trump to stand firm? A compromise of this sort would allow both to claim victory....Trump can say he got money for border enhancements and Democrats in the House say we always wanted security but no money specific to a wall.
If in the compromise to the shutdown a bill is passed with wording for enhanced security, incl a fence.... is that acceptable to those that want a wall. It is going to come to an eventual solution of agreeing for more enhanced border security, but without the word wall in there, but money is appropriated for general security enhancements. Would this be ok to those who want Trump to stand firm? A compromise of this sort would allow both to claim victory....Trump can say he got money for border enhancements and Democrats in the House say we always wanted security but no money specific to a wall.
That is the bill that Congress agreed to on a bipartisan basis back in December. It's the bill both Houses passed by large margins. It's the bill Trump indicated he would sign...until he changed is mind. And it is the bill he says he will not sign now.
He wants his wall. Period. And he doesn't care that the majority of the country doesn't want his wall, he doesn't care how much harm he is doing to the country. Like an errant toddler throwing a tantrum, it has to be his way or nothing.
The key here will be the Senate Republicans, if Mitch McConnell will even allow a vote on the House bill. They could end this tomorrow. It's they who are holding things up now.
First, the OP - if Mexico is paying for the Wall, the government must be opened then. NOT. So that one is dispensed with.
Let's take a couple of the states with the highest number of illegals working in construction and hospitality - Texas and Florida. Both are Republican owned and have been forever (recent decades). Neither have e-verify. Both have population booms...so plenty of white, black and brown "Americans" are in these places.
But the Pols and People won't do e-verify. Why? Well, you are somewhat right in "corporate" welfare, but I think you need to know that these "corporations" are people (mitt romney aside). We're talking about well known pillars of the community - the people that hospital wings and parks and malls are named after. Those are the developers....who hire the illegals (through 3rd parties if possible) and use their labor.
The undoc workers are NOT working for peanuts...those who have skills are often making $16-$20 an hour...maybe more. True, they are not getting full benefits...but as a carpenter and remodeler who has worked "sub" for many big builders, I can assure you that Americans doing these jobs don't get anything. If it rained you don't make money. If the materials are held up you don't make money. If you hurt yourself you likely will never make money again (at framing)....
I did a lot of framing and trim work way back when...BEFORE there was undoc workers doing these jobs. I can assure you that we never made a living wage. Never made benefits. Those builders screw labor to the wall...and leave them hanging. That is their way. That's why you and others can crow about the cheap cost of housing in the South.
Now, if I want a house in Ma. - well, then, likely a French Canadian (American) or other such people are going to be the contractors...and they've made a living and a life out of it. BUT, those houses cost twice what one in the Sunshine State or Texas does.
There have already been many "tests" of your premise - that Americans could and would do these jobs. The results were staggering. In GA. they chased a lot of immigrants out...and the farmers tried to bus Americans to do the Ag work. I think maybe 10% lasted ONE DAY. A single day. True.
So, please, do your research. Maybe you want your children to hoe weeds in 95 degree humidity in GA, but most Americans don't. Maybe you want your children to do some of the most dangerous jobs on the planet (roofing, for example), but such "careers" are short lived and then a person ends up getting old too soon and with a broken body.
My kids aren't the topic. Besides both are in their early 40s and doing very well, as long as the economy doesn't take a dump.
Quote:
One example: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.02d7ac6859e1
(Out of 500,000 unemployed Americans in NC)....
"97 percent of referred applicants were hired. But they don't tend to last. In 2011, 245 people were hired out of 268 referred, but only 163 (66.5 percent) of the hired applicants actually showed up to the first day of work. Worse, only seven lasted to the end of the growing season"Seven people out of 100's of thousands. So who is right? You? Or reality?
I can give you some firsthand perspective on this.
Back in the mid 60s my brothers and I worked detassling corn in hot humid conditions and almost every other kid who worked with us was white, also. It was dirty tiring work, but for kids with few resources who were looking for some pocket money it was one of the few options available.
Nowadays, if that work was paying decent money a whole lot more kids would be doing it as summer employment, is my bet. If the corporations (these were corporate operations growing hybrid seed corn, not family farms) paid well, they wouldn't be bellyaching about "lack of workers."
It's their excuse for continuing to undercut American labor.
I've been very consistent in opposing illegal labor as nothing but a benefit to the 1% and stating that it's the reason that illegals will continue to be hired by "the right people" and no wall will ever keep that from occurring.
The right approach to combating illegal immigration is stiff employer sanctions.
Of course, the GOP has no interest in doing anything that would benefit working Americans or causing a slight decrease in the bottom lines of their billionaire owners.
That is the bill that Congress agreed to on a bipartisan basis back in December. It's the bill both Houses passed by large margins. It's the bill Trump indicated he would sign...until he changed is mind. And it is the bill he says he will not sign now.
He wants his wall. Period. And he doesn't care that the majority of the country doesn't want his wall, he doesn't care how much harm he is doing to the country. Like an errant toddler throwing a tantrum, it has to be his way or nothing.
The key here will be the Senate Republicans, if Mitch McConnell will even allow a vote on the House bill. They could end this tomorrow. It's they who is holding things up now.
I agree... it will come full circle and compromise will be the bipartisan bill last month. But I wondered if enhanced security would be fine of it a specific wall must be built to satisfy. I vote no for that later.
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