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Yes, but it was to be on the 700 miles of the most porous areas of the border and that's all we need. They didn't build what they promised which were double barriers as only 30 miles of that was built. Much of the rest are flimsy fences that are breachable. Trump wants to fix that so what's the problem?
o h really. A link to the official plan for the use of the 5 billion Trump is requesting. And the DHS study that was used to come up with it.
Really? I'm interested in seeing the data that supports that because as far as I can tell that is not a statistic that DHS tracks, or at least releases to the public.
Really? I'm interested in seeing the data that supports that because as far as I can tell that is not a statistic that DHS tracks, or at least releases to the public.
You're right, there's not a direct stat on that and I'd like to know why not. But you can piece it together here and there. Aside from the fact that our official overstay number is highly inflated as it represents possible overstays not people who actually overstayed. If the paperwork wasn't completed and processed properly then DHS won't have a record of the departure. By far, the foreign students and exchange visitors have the highest overstay rate.
CIS looked at the 2017 official DHS report of 700,000 overstays and noted that 15% had since departed. DHS also shows that overstays depart over time. Am I wrong on my estimate of "most" eventually return? Could be. But clearly there is a demographic difference between an overstay and an illegal entrant. One is likely a college educated student from a wealthy family and one is likely an illiterate peasant farmer. Which one should we focus on first?
Overall, the report found that 739,000 visitors scheduled to depart last year did not leave on time. However, this does not mean that the United States added 739,000 to the unauthorized population living in the United States. The report notes that the initial number of “in-country overstays” (those who overstayed by at least one day but did not later leave within the fiscal year) goes down over time. Of the original 739,000 identified overstayers, 110,000 eventually departed the United States before the end of the fiscal year. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/dhs-overstay-report/
You're right, there's not a direct stat on that and I'd like to know why not. But you can piece it together here and there. Aside from the fact that our official overstay number is highly inflated as it represents possible overstays not people who actually overstayed. If the paperwork wasn't completed and processed properly then DHS won't have a record of the departure. By far, the foreign students and exchange visitors have the highest overstay rate.
CIS looked at the 2017 official DHS report of 700,000 overstays and noted that 15% had since departed. DHS also shows that overstays depart over time. Am I wrong on my estimate of "most" eventually return? Could be. But clearly there is a demographic difference between an overstay and an illegal entrant. One is likely a college educated student from a wealthy family and one is likely an illiterate peasant farmer. Which one should we focus on first?
Overall, the report found that 739,000 visitors scheduled to depart last year did not leave on time. However, this does not mean that the United States added 739,000 to the unauthorized population living in the United States. The report notes that the initial number of “in-country overstays” (those who overstayed by at least one day but did not later leave within the fiscal year) goes down over time. Of the original 739,000 identified overstayers, 110,000 eventually departed the United States before the end of the fiscal year. https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/dhs-overstay-report/
Yet you and many others have been screaming about how illegals are illegal are illegal and need to be deported immediately. All of a sudden economic benefit excuses, or at least blunts, their illegality such that their deportation is less of a priority? Well then.
Yes, but it was to be on the 700 miles of the most porous areas of the border and that's all we need. They didn't build what they promised which were double barriers as only 30 miles of that was built. Much of the rest are flimsy fences that are breachable. Trump wants to fix that so what's the problem?
The problem is that without a solid Administration proposal Trump's talk of a "wall" comes across like a vanity project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vacoder
o h really. A link to the official plan for the use of the 5 billion Trump is requesting. And the DHS study that was used to come up with it.
I've looked for an official plan online and asked before for a link but got no response. Curious about Democratic opposition, I came across this:
In addition to all the other issues ... according to Schumer (December 20, 2018):
"There's no plan to build it. The president asked for $5 billion, sent us no plans; where it would be, how much it would cost, each part, what it would be made of?"
Too ... "There is no plan to deal with eminent domain. There are lots of people on the Texas border and other borders who don't want to give up their land. They've said they'll fight it in court; that will take years. We have not heard a peep out of the administration on how to deal with that."
Per links from some posters, Congress has appropriated funds for specific upgrades during the Trump administration but there's a reluctance to start writing blank checks.
This is Trump's weakness. He's quick to resort to dogwhistle politics but comes up short with the planning. It does not impress, nor convince.
The problem is that without a solid Administration proposal Trump's talk of a "wall" comes across like a vanity project.
I've looked for an official plan online and asked before for a link but got a response. Curious about Democratic opposition, I came across this:
In addition to all the other issues ... according to Schumer (December 20, 2018):
"There's no plan to build it. The president asked for $5 billion, sent us no plans; where it would be, how much it would cost, each part, what it would be made of?"
Too ... "There is no plan to deal with eminent domain. There are lots of people on the Texas border and other borders who don't want to give up their land. They've said they'll fight it in court; that will take years. We have not heard a peep out of the administration on how to deal with that."
Per links from some posters, Congress has appropriated funds for specific upgrades during the Trump administration but there's a reluctance to start writing blank checks.
This is Trump's weakness. He's quick to resort to dogwhistle politics but comes up short with the planning. It does not impress, nor convince.
Are you kidding me? He has no plan but just wants money?
Do you have a link?
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The problem is that without a solid Administration proposal Trump's talk of a "wall" comes across like a vanity project.
I've looked for an official plan online and asked before for a link but got a response. Curious about Democratic opposition, I came across this:
In addition to all the other issues ... according to Schumer (December 20, 2018):
"There's no plan to build it. The president asked for $5 billion, sent us no plans; where it would be, how much it would cost, each part, what it would be made of?"
Too ... "There is no plan to deal with eminent domain. There are lots of people on the Texas border and other borders who don't want to give up their land. They've said they'll fight it in court; that will take years. We have not heard a peep out of the administration on how to deal with that."
Per links from some posters, Congress has appropriated funds for specific upgrades during the Trump administration but there's a reluctance to start writing blank checks.
This is Trump's weakness. He's quick to resort to dogwhistle politics but comes up short with the planning. It does not impress, nor convince.
So there's no plan on how to build it, no plan on where to build it, no plan to obtain the land on which it would be built, and no plan to get Mexico to fund it.
This is just the type of thing we should throw $5 billion at while our interior infrastructure crumbles.
Yet you and many others have been screaming about how illegals are illegal are illegal and need to be deported immediately. All of a sudden economic benefit excuses, or at least blunts, their illegality such that their deportation is less of a priority? Well then.
Correct on all counts. Illegal is illegal is illegal. And nowhere did I say anyone is excused. When you don't have the resources to address them all at once, you must determine priority which I think the potential cost/benefits is as good a criteria as any.
It's just like healthcare. A human is a human is a human and a hospital should treat every person that arrives in it's emergency room but they still triage based on urgency and severity of care needed. Because the ER focuses on the patient in cardiac arrest first does not mean they don't care about the patient who stepped on glass and cut his foot.
Correct on all counts. Illegal is illegal is illegal. And nowhere did I say anyone is excused. When you don't have the resources to address them all at once, you must determine priority which I think the potential cost/benefits is as good a criteria as any.
It's just like healthcare. A human is a human is a human and a hospital should treat every person that arrives in it's emergency room but they still triage based on urgency and severity of care needed. Because the ER focuses on the patient in cardiac arrest first does not mean they don't care about the patient who stepped on glass and cut his foot.
You said some illegals should be deported before others and suggested that the decision should be driven by economic factors. If all illegals are equally illegal and our need to deport them is driven by the need to secure our borders and uphold our laws, economic factors should not come in to play.
My knowledge of how all this works is fuzzy at best ... but isn't there an overall bill ... that is then followed by some the authorization process where proposals are much more detailed (like what Schumer is talking about) ... then once it reaches the contract stage at the agencies details become firmer yet.
All I ever hear about is Trump and his tweets followed now by various Administration officials trying to explain what he really means by "wall." And then he wants money ...
Trump tweeted in an apparent response to the Schumer remarks:
"The Democrats, who know Steel Slats (Wall) are necessary for Border Security, are putting politics over Country. What they are just beginning to realize is that I will not sign any of their legislation, including infrastructure, unless it has perfect Border Security. U.S.A. WINS!"
In a second tweet, Trump wrote: "With so much talk about the Wall, people are losing sight of the great job being done on our Southern Border by Border Patrol, ICE and our great Military. Remember the Caravans? Well, they didn’t get through and none are forming or on their way. Border is tight. Fake News silent!"
So instead of providing a plan he went ahead with his threat to shut down the Government.
Last edited by EveryLady; 01-02-2019 at 11:30 AM..
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