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Short version: white people don't understand black people and are all crazy and racist.
Well at least you're seeing all things clearly and not through your own crazy, racist lens.
That's what my grandmother thought lol!
As noted, I argued with her about it (she was a trip but I loved her). But she did raise me to not expect most whites to not be ignorant about black people - that I shouldn't be surprised or offended when it happened. It has happened a lot (especially when I lived down south). But I'll note that she should have prepared me for it happening with blacks as well. Many black people buy into racist/inferior views of blacks and that has been more difficult for me to grasp and come to an understand about because it was not something that was prevalent amongst the black community where I lived (to think that white people were "better" than us or had better schools, churches, families, etc. - no black people around me growing up expressed this sort of POV but it was very common in metro Atlanta in particular and something that I thought would drive my husband who is from Chicago crazy).
And I will admit I do think that white people (in general) are ignorant about racism and what it is and they often are racist and don't recognize that they are. I don't think all whites are racist, but many are, just like many black people are.
I don't view any person as inferior or superior to me based on race (not the way they parent, not due to their education, not due to any social sort of circumstance) so don't consider myself a racist. I also do not claim to know what is is like to be white or Asian or Latino or what you all experience.
However, I can admit I can be prejudice. Everyone can be and are IMO. I have racial prejudices and luckily I grew up with elders who did encourage me to think and debate them in a respectful way. So I did challenge my grandmother and great grandmother in particular on their racist views of whites (they had many). Just like I could respect them as people but just know they are that way - I do the same for everyone else in my life when they express similar racist beliefs of other groups of people or their own group (the blacks that do it about other black people though do still bother me - but whites doing it doesn't bother me. When whites I know don't do it - I'm usually surprised and I'll admit that I know more non-racially prejudiced whites today than I used to and rarely do I interact in real life with a lot of racist white people. I think they've all gone online lol).
And I have said the same thing about crime rates, which uses the same clunky, logically invalid nonsense as these "woe is me" threads on household income.
The number one point I always make about crime statistics is that the number one statistical commonality among convicted felons is not race or even gender (if you actually lump female inmates with male), rather, it's the inmate having grown up in a single mother, no father present household. Beats race, age, gender, geography, etc. Number one, clear and away. You start equalizing all other factors, and some uncomfortable truths pop out, which is why nobody ever spends the time to do null hypothesis analysis correctly.
Start equalizing all the variables and uncomfortable truths will emerge that you will not like.
Your number one point is not proof of anything either, so why point it out? The vast majority of people from single parent homes don't end up in prison, notwithstanding that the vast majority of people in prison are from single parent homes. If the vast majority of people from single family homes do not go to prison, then single family homes, in and of itself, is not the cause. Single parent homes in combination with other factors....like maybe concentrated poverty and or abuse....but not simply single parent homes.
I think "white people" don't express their opinions of black people publicly as noted in the above article. This is a generalization that just isn't true in my circle of friends/family. I think most white people go to work, stop by the grocery store on the way home, feed their kids, and go to a soccer game on the weekends. I think that most of us just don't care enough about other folks to add to the race conversation that you see in the media.
Agreed. The only time this stuff even enters my mind is when I come on CD.
When I’m walking around in real life, I’ve got my own stuff to deal with, whether at work or at home with my kids. “How black people are doing”, never enters my consciousness. That goes the same for Chinese or Indians, or any other group that I am not a part of.
Your number one point is not proof of anything either, so why point it out? The vast majority of people from single parent homes don't end up in prison, notwithstanding that the vast majority of people in prison are from single parent homes. If the vast majority of people from single family homes do not go to prison, then single family homes, in and of itself, is not the cause. Single parent homes in combination with other factors....like maybe concentrated poverty and or abuse....but not simply single parent homes.
It isn't about the vast majority and to say that, is disingenuous, at best. And yes it is about single parent. Much, much more than any other factor.
Percentage wise children from single parent homes have a much higher rate of criminality. Percentage wise, the prisons have a much larger percentge of those raised by single parents. It's not even close.
The 1987 "Survey of Youth in Custody" found that 70% did not grow up with both parents. Another 1994 study of Wisconsin juveniles was even more stark: only 13% grew up with their married parents. Here's the conclusion of Cynthia Harper and Sara McLanahan, the doyenne of researchers about single parenthood: "[C]ontrolling for income and all other factors, youths in father-absent families (mother only, mother-stepfather, and relatives/other) still had significantly higher odds of incarceration than those from mother-father families."
Through the years, overall crime is down. It would be down significantly more if more children were in 2 parent families.
Last edited by Loveshiscountry; 01-09-2019 at 09:14 AM..
What has always been clear to me, about you, is the fact that you see black REACTION to racism, as evidence of "black racism". If black people think white people are crazy, for treating black people badly, that becomes "black racism" to you.Any reaction by blacks, to being mistreated, that is not "thank you massa....I love white people"...is "black racism" to you.
On this I do agree. Grandma also did say that some whites always want to feel happy that you love them no matter what they do (in regards to the blue).
She had a difficult time in her career as she was the only black person in an executive position in the company she worked for. So for Mathguy note, this is not some ignorant, project person that I'm speaking about. My grandmother was very well educated and well paid and I loved staying with her because compared to my parents she was "rich."
But she'd had a lot of difficult situations with white people, mostly due to the fact that she was born in the 1930s and spent a significant amount of her life living under a very racially oppressive system in America.
I do feel that in many ways, black people, we understand what racism is more than whites because we actually do experience it and have a history of experiencing it. Us saying you don't and that you have a "crazy" view of what it is and isn't, that idea in and of itself is not racist.
Various people on this thread have explicitly stated that black people have inferior:
Families
Parents
Attitudes toward education
Spending habits
Culture
Etc, just by nature of being black - as if all of the above are traits of which blacks are inherently inferior to whites about.
I find it interesting Mathguy that you'd take cause with me sharing my grandmother's POV (and she had some WAY more racist views of whites than that - IMO that was some of her common sense advice to me - to not let white racists bother me because they're crazy - I think you can admit that white racists are crazy lol and FWIW I do think they literally have psychological problems associated with delusions and paranoia about people of a different ethnic background and need some help)
Yet There are literally tens to hundreds of posts co-signing the inferiority of black people based on the list above. There are threads here every week that do the same yet many of you self proclaimed non-black posters ever say what this sort of view represents - racism in its simplest form.
ETA: I'll note that I did some research on WEB DuBois a few years ago and he also said that a significant amount of whites are ignorant about what racism is and does to the black populace of this country and that they are often racist and don't admit it. He was often lauded by white writers/commentators and called a racist against whites just because he provided an independent POV, as a black man about racism being directed against black people. So what Indentured Servant said is very correct. Often whites go on a defensive when black people express our views about whites and their racism. FWIW, for me, that is also a part of "the crazy" I spoke of above and which is why I don't take this stuff seriously. Only when black people do it, is it serious to me because I feel blacks holding an inferior view of ourselves is something that can cause huge damage to our demographic today and which is disrespectful to the legacy of our ancestors who sacrificed a lot for us to have the opportunities we have today.
Last edited by residinghere2007; 01-09-2019 at 08:55 AM..
I think "white people" don't express their opinions of black people publicly as noted in the above article. This is a generalization that just isn't true in my circle of friends/family. I think most white people go to work, stop by the grocery store on the way home, feed their kids, and go to a soccer game on the weekends. I think that most of us just don't care enough about other folks to add to the race conversation that you see in the media.
The one thing I generally refrain from is using myself or my personal experience as a template for what is true in general in a country of nearly 330 million people. I generally focus on studies. That is mostly what I post....studies and theories based upon studies. I don't know most people. I have never met most people and all the people I have personally met and interacted with would not ever represent 1% of 1% of Americans.
There are tons of studies and social experiments that take place or have taken place that really provide a snapshot of what America is like in regards to race. My or your personal experiences maybe similar or different, but our experience, either way, cannot be used as proof or contradiction of the big picture. That would be the logical fallacy of composition.
On this I do agree. Grandma also did say that some whites always want to feel happy that you love them no matter what they do (in regards to the blue).
She had a difficult time in her career as she was the only black person in an executive position in the company she worked for. So for Mathguy note, this is not some ignorant, project person that I'm speaking about. My grandmother was very well educated and well paid and I loved staying with her because compared to my parents she was "rich."
But she'd had a lot of difficult situations with white people, mostly due to the fact that she was born in the 1930s and spent a significant amount of her life living under a very racially oppressive system in America.
I do feel that in many ways, black people, we understand what racism is more than whites because we actually do experience it and have a history of experiencing it. Us saying you don't and that you have a "crazy" view of what it is and isn't, that idea in and of itself is not racist.
Various people on this thread have explicitly stated that black people have inferior:
Families
Parents
Attitudes toward education
Spending habits
Culture
Etc, just by nature of being black - as if all of the above are traits of which blacks are inherently inferior to whites about.
I find it interesting Mathguy that you'd take cause with me sharing my grandmother's POV (and she had some WAY more racist views of whites than that - IMO that was some of her common sense advice to me - to not let white racists bother me because they're crazy - I think you can admit that white racists are crazy lol and FWIW I do think they literally have psychological problems associated with delusions and paranoia about people of a different ethnic background and need some help)
Yet There are literally tens to hundreds of posts co-signing the inferiority of black people based on the list above. There are threads here every week that do the same yet many of you self proclaimed non-black posters ever say what this sort of view represents - racism in its simplest form.
Totally agree with that. Since you are sharing. My dad use to tell us that the white man was the devil. Why....because they treated them devilishly. He always used to tell us to look them strait in their eyes. Later in life, before he passed and living in the hood, he grew less found of black people too.
As noted, I argued with her about it (she was a trip but I loved her). But she did raise me to not expect most whites to not be ignorant about black people - that I shouldn't be surprised or offended when it happened. It has happened a lot (especially when I lived down south). But I'll note that she should have prepared me for it happening with blacks as well. Many black people buy into racist/inferior views of blacks and that has been more difficult for me to grasp and come to an understand about because it was not something that was prevalent amongst the black community where I lived (to think that white people were "better" than us or had better schools, churches, families, etc. - no black people around me growing up expressed this sort of POV but it was very common in metro Atlanta in particular and something that I thought would drive my husband who is from Chicago crazy).
And I will admit I do think that white people (in general) are ignorant about racism and what it is and they often are racist and don't recognize that they are. I don't think all whites are racist, but many are, just like many black people are.
I don't view any person as inferior or superior to me based on race (not the way they parent, not due to their education, not due to any social sort of circumstance) so don't consider myself a racist. I also do not claim to know what is is like to be white or Asian or Latino or what you all experience.
However, I can admit I can be prejudice. Everyone can be and are IMO. I have racial prejudices and luckily I grew up with elders who did encourage me to think and debate them in a respectful way. So I did challenge my grandmother and great grandmother in particular on their racist views of whites (they had many). Just like I could respect them as people but just know they are that way - I do the same for everyone else in my life when they express similar racist beliefs of other groups of people or their own group (the blacks that do it about other black people though do still bother me - but whites doing it doesn't bother me. When whites I know don't do it - I'm usually surprised and I'll admit that I know more non-racially prejudiced whites today than I used to and rarely do I interact in real life with a lot of racist white people. I think they've all gone online lol).
Fair points and thank you for your response. I report the racists on this forum and then typically put them on ignore so I think I have a much more reasonable and pleasant experience here than most. Generally speaking, they go on ignore more for being idiots than for their views but then again racism is inherently illogical.
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