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Have you given up the argument that paying $32 trillion, or $32 million, or $32 via taxes is somehow more than paying $35 trillion, or $35 million or $35 to private companies?
Paid for by WHOM? Answer the question... Give the details... Exactly to WHOM would the new $3.2 trillion worth of tax bills needed to fund MfA be apportioned?
Everyone does not contribute because some cannot or will not. It isn't unacceptable because it is how we function. You are right charity would not suffice so we need to pay taxes to help the poor. You don't have to like it but it is the reality. The US will become more socialist as the wealth divide increases, so buckle up.
Not sure you have grasped the mindset of the person you are arguing with. Your position makes one basic assumption - that it MATTERS what happens to the poor or disabled or infirm or sick. All you have to do is go back to Scrooge's quote from Dicken's Christmas Carol for a refresher. Speaking of the poor, Scrooge said: "If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."
Many people are still naive about this. They believe that their morals and Christian beliefs are shared by the general population around them. History has shown us time and time again that this is patently false here in the USA, from the days of legalized human slavery to the resistance to providing health care for all.
These principles have been at war with one another since the inception of this country. You have to pick a side, take a stand and see where it goes from there. It's anyone's guess, but one thing is clear - plenty of suffering is coming our way. It's at our doorstep.
Your bubble is quite opaque. Sorry, we live in a "society". I pay extra auto insurance premium for uninsured drivers, because some people will be irresponsible, that is a fact of life.
All insurance mutualize risk. Each state regulates insurers. No two states have the same regulations.
Your zip code is a major rating factor when it comes to your auto insurance premium. ( only two states, require insurers to disregard zip code)
Your zip code tells the insurer the rate of stolen cars, vandelism, rate of claims made, type of claims, % of fraudulent claims, damaging weather and prevalence of accidents.
There are a lot of countries with universal healthcare. The vast majority of them do not have laws against obesity or doing extreme sports.
What's wrong with the US that it would need to be an exception?
The US wouldn't need to be an exception if the Fed Gov charged the average US income earner ($59,000 household income) a 45% effective federal tax rate.
I've posted the data before... THIS is what it would take to fund what some people say they want.
The effective national tax rate the typical average income European worker pays is in the second from the right column on page 9:
39% of American adults are obese according to the CDC, while only 3% of Japanese are obese.
They could likely have "Medicare for All" but healthcare rationing would be a reality, physicians and nurses would have to take massive paycuts to the point it would be a volunteer position almost with a small stipend and obesity rates would have to go way down with massive amounts of food policing that most processed food manufacturing companies would not agree to.
Another reason why Medicare for all won't work is because the American diet is toxic. I went out to eat for the first time in a very long time and I have to say I could feel the difference after what I typical make for my meals.
Oh please what made up BS.
1 KOCH funded study shows medicare for all would cost less than we currently spend . Koch boys must have been super upset that their own study proved crazy bernie was right..
2 All other developed nations have "medicare for all " and don't have or need "fat" rules.
So there you go Lovecrowds, with just a few seconds typing your entire arguement is crushed.
1 conservate studies came up with a cost of 32 trillion over ten years... we are currently spending 3.4 trillion a year...
2 nobody else needs one so why would we? are you saying Americans are dumber than europeans? are you claiming we are not as able as the french? as smart as the british? I guess lovescrowds does not believe US is as good as europe...
So, it's your position that the US can't implement UH because it uniquely has urban and rural areas?
No, it is my position that the American sense of entitlement makes the practical reality of healthcare delivery according to national standards a logistical nightmare. I used small and large markets, rural vs urban, as an example of the sense of entitlement being ignorant of both markets and geography.
And I never said we couldn't implement a healthcare dictatorship, I just said it would be nightmarish. I stand by that prediction, given the complexities of both the markets across the US, the complexities of healthcare as an industry, and the simple fact that 99 out of 100 politicians are about as smart as the average 4th grader. Let AmTrak, TSA and the Postal Service be your guide to how well the US government runs things
The people that are currently paying $3.5 trillion.
I'm not that great at math, but I think that if we can afford $3.5 trillion, we can afford $3.2 trillion.
Answer the question... Give the details... Exactly to WHOM would the new $3.2 trillion worth of tax bills needed to fund MfA be apportioned? WHO pays, and HOW much? And WHO doesn't pay?
Well, in this case it's true that the government has been lying to the public for decades in a way that makes them fatter and less healthy. The high-carb diet promoted by the feds makes people fatter and less healthy than the alternatives. Do you really want to blame them for trusting the government? I don't trust the government, but I used to, and most people still do. It's not their fault.
Excellent points.
Unfortunately, far too many people still believe in the low/no fat, high-carb model that has so obviously contributed to the sky-rocketing diabetes rates and yes, that came directly from the so-called health experts at the federal level.
When doctors and other health professionals also adhere to the same poor advice, what are people supposed to do?
The US wouldn't need to be an exception if the Fed Gov charged the average US income earner ($59,000 household income) a 45% effective federal tax rate.
Here's the funny thing about this. You seem to think that somehow magically under our current system, that you will avoid that 45% effective tax rate (or whatever it really is).
The reality is that not only you will pay that - you will pay MORE if possible. You might not pay it through taxes but I can assure you that by the end of your life that insurance companies, health care providers and big pharma will do everything in their power to take every single red cent you might have managed to put into the piggy bank during your lifetime. As long as an unregulated health care system continues it will only get worse.
Pay me now or pay me later but at the end of the day, the piper WILL get paid. All the healthy living and responsible life choices will never keep their hands out of your wallet.
It's not any different than the Mafia in their heyday shaking down businesses for extortion money - they did it because they could, at least before the Rico Act. Only difference is that THIS shakedown is perfectly legal. The other difference is that perfectly rational people don't seem to grasp the fact that they are being extorted in much the same way. At least with the Mafia you KNEW when you were getting shafted.
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