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Old 02-19-2019, 09:31 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,384 posts, read 45,111,515 times
Reputation: 13819

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Your bubble is quite opaque. Sorry, we live in a "society".
That implies everyone contributes. It's QUITE clear that not everyone does.

Again, the responsible are punished and the irresponsible are rewarded by showering them with other people's money. That's unacceptable. If you disagree, start a charitable foundation to fund the expenses of those who don't contribute to the costs of said society. See how many voluntary donations you get.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:37 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,384 posts, read 45,111,515 times
Reputation: 13819
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lead View Post
No.
It's not fair.
You sound like AOC, who wants a guaranteed minimum income for those who are unwilling to work. No thanks.
Quote:
Who pays exactly what can be done in any number of ways.

Obviously those with more money would pay more, and those with less would pay less
Why? What's the justification for that? It's purely arbitrary, which is why persons A and B can go into the same store and buy the same cart of groceries for the same price regardless of their income level.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:37 AM
 
19,772 posts, read 12,339,271 times
Reputation: 26649
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
That implies everyone contributes. It's QUITE clear that not everyone does.

Again, the responsible are punished and the irresponsible are rewarded by showering them with other people's money. That's unacceptable. If you disagree, start a charitable foundation to fund the expenses of those who don't contribute to the costs of said society. See how many voluntary donations you get.
Everyone does not contribute because some cannot or will not. It isn't unacceptable because it is how we function. You are right charity would not suffice so we need to pay taxes to help the poor. You don't have to like it but it is the reality. The US will become more socialist as the wealth divide increases, so buckle up.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,890,684 times
Reputation: 10791
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Seniors have to PAY for their Medicare in the form of premiums, deductibles, co-pays, and there are many things that aren't even covered. And that's AFTER pre-paying decades worth of Medicare premiums via the Medicare payroll tax.

I'd suggest the Medicare for All crowd propose a buy-in into Medicare, since seniors don't get it for free. Post your buy-in proposal.
Yes! I like your idea! Everyone begins paying in to Medicare; young, old, healthy, and sick. Medicare will become one big risk pool without insurance companies skimming huge profits. Thanks
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:39 AM
 
Location: Midwest
38,496 posts, read 25,890,684 times
Reputation: 10791
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It doesn't come out in the wash. Why do healthy people have to pay extra to pay for fat people's health care? Here's, yet again, ANOTHER example of how the responsible are punished and the irresponsible are rewarded by showering them with other people's money. That's unacceptable.
Are you by chance also "pro-life?"
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:40 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,725,772 times
Reputation: 14051
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lead View Post
So, it's your position that the US can't implement UH because it uniquely has urban and rural areas?
They will come up with any excuse to fit that conclusion they have already come up with.

Boston serves a very varied population (local, regional, state and WORLD) with top docs and hospitals...which most people have full access to.

At the most, we'd have to add 20% to cover ALL of the obesity and "extras" that the US may present...although economies of scaled should, in theory, negate much of that.

Taking a world average of 5K (in modern western countries) that would make it 6K per person per year, or a savings of ONE TRILLION PLUS per year over the current system.

Try as one might, stating that the perfect is the enemy of the good doesn't make sense...yet it's the "point" that some (especially libertarians and anarchists) tend to make. Conservatives and Republicans only use that selectively - i.e. 200 miles of Wall when 2,000 is needed is fantastic, but if they find ANY deficiency in other programs they will harp on them and say it "proves" that we can't do it.

They also seem unable to grasp the basic facts....of reality. That is, the status quo of things (immigration, health care, environment, transportation, etc.) to them is not taken into account when they make decisions. For example, they'd rather have no comprehensive immigration reform from Congress (which is what they have achieved over the last 20 years) then SOME. It's as if they don't realize that the status quo might suck.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:41 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,384 posts, read 45,111,515 times
Reputation: 13819
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane View Post
Everyone does not contribute because some cannot or will not. It isn't unacceptable because it is how we function.
Only according to those who want something for nothing. No thanks. Pay for your own health care, or appeal to charities to pay on your behalf.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:43 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,384 posts, read 45,111,515 times
Reputation: 13819
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Yes! I like your idea! Everyone begins paying in to Medicare; young, old, healthy, and sick. Medicare will become one big risk pool without insurance companies skimming huge profits. Thanks
So, we keep the ten year minimum Medicare tax prepayment eligibility requirement. That's a start. That means children are't covered until someone pays Medicare tax for them for a minimum of 10 years.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:47 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,725,772 times
Reputation: 14051
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Yes! I like your idea! Everyone begins paying in to Medicare; young, old, healthy, and sick. Medicare will become one big risk pool without insurance companies skimming huge profits. Thanks
Good Idea......

There is still room for PLENTY of profit, competition and all the other stuff...but it should be limited to either science based procedures and medicines or moved outside of the medical system (supplements, pot, etc.).

Insurance companies can still exist for many various reasons. Some people want "luxe" sports medicine or anti-aging or other treatments. I have a friend on Medicare that spends 20K a year or so on extra insurances and procedures.....BUT, he's 73 and winning tennis tourneys. He SHOULD pay extra.

The market for upscale medicine would be vast if we went to the basics for all.

I recently finished a book by at Brit NHS neurosurgeon. While the Brit system is not what I'd suggest modeling ours after, this Doc notes that he often finds botched up operations performed by the "luxe" paid-for system that wealthier brits can choose to go to. They have a "profit motive" to operate even when the science says no.

Everyone can be convinced when they are at their weak points...to do more to fix the impossible. But in the UK and other such places, they use statistics and science. If someone wants to raise or borrow money and do things which are unproven given their diagnosis, so be it.

In the USA, tho, this is profitable and the pushers (docs and medical companies) have every reason to give people false hope.
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Old 02-19-2019, 09:47 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,384 posts, read 45,111,515 times
Reputation: 13819
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Are you by chance also "pro-life?"
No, but I do draw the line at taxpayers paying for abortions which happens in at least 17 states via the states portion of Medicaid funding. If you want an abortion, pay for it yourself or find someone who will charitably fund it for you.

Additionally, It makes legal sense that feticide is no longer a crime in NY given their new 3rd trimester abortion law. Either anyone can kill a fetus or no one can. US Constitution Equal Protection Clause.
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