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And yet liberals and democrats continue to think it is. Money for schools, social programs, handouts, WIC, section 8, rent controlled apartments etc.
It's no wonder poor people continue to be poor when you have to be poor to get this free stuff.
You can't legislate people out of poverty, period.
Pretty sure nobody chooses to be poor...
Given the choice, would you rather be given a $500 TV (idk how much TVs actually cost...never bought one)? Or would you rather make 20x that every month?
With that being said, back to the topic. I'm against the idea of reparations. Giving or taking away people's money based on their race historically tends to be a very bad and slippery road to travel down on, no matter how benevolent the original intentions.
You've got some nerve accusing me of being racist when YOU proudly claimed how much respect you have for Farakkan's anti-Semitic organization! How can you respect such a bigot?
The rest of your argument is ridiculous. If blacks would cut the out-of-wedlock rate in half, you'd see major improvements in all areas of success - educational attainment, income, and net worth - in a single generation.
I never said I had respect for Farrrakans anti-Semitic organization. I said I had respect for his pro black organization. You might think that American democracy is the best in the world....but that does not mean you support liberalism, even though its one aspect of the American democratic process. Hence, I can favor the NOI, without being in favor of all aspects. Thus, to me, they are the greatest black organization that currently exists, even though I don't agree with everything about them. That is just like you think that America is the greatest country that ever exists, even though you don't like or agree with many things about America.
Riddle me this. If the performance of a race in America is strongly tied to the rate of births out of wedlock, why has there not been a major decline in the socioeconomic of whites from 1960 til now, given that the rate went from less than 5% then to about 30% today? Where is the increase in the white rate of poverty? Where is the increase in the rate of white criminal activity? Where is the increase in the rate of white unemployment, ect, ect? You can't find it and hence, in scientific reasoning a theory has to be REPRODUCIBLE!!! The white out of wedlock birth rate has increased 6 fold since 1960. Where are all the negative reactions to white socioeconomic? Why then, do you think cutting the rate in half for blacks will improve black socioeconomic tremendously, when a 6 fold increase in the rate for whites produced no socioeconomic consequences for whites? In other words, obviously there is something else going on effecting socioeconomic other than out of wedlock births. Higher out of wedlock births, for blacks, is likely a SYMPTOM of their poor socioeconomic condition, rather than the cause.
You need to ask yourself why the out of wedlock birth rate was 27% for blacks in 1960, but only 4% for whites in 1960. You need to ask yourself why, since slavery, the rate has been higher.
I never said I had respect for Farrrakans anti-Semitic organization. I said I had respect for his pro black organization. You might think that American democracy is the best in the world....but that does not mean you support liberalism, even though its one aspect of the American democratic process. Hence, I can favor the NOI, without being in favor of all aspects. Thus, to me, they are the greatest black organization that currently exists, even though I don't agree with everything about them. That is just like you think that America is the greatest country that ever exists, even though you don't like or agree with many things about America.
Riddle me this. If the performance of a race in America is strongly tied to the rate of births out of wedlock, why has there not been a major decline in the socioeconomic of whites from 1960 til now, given that the rate went from less than 5% then to about 30% today? Where is the increase in the white rate of poverty? Where is the increase in the rate of white criminal activity? Where is the increase in the rate of white unemployment, ect, ect? You can't find it and hence, in scientific reasoning a theory has to be REPRODUCIBLE!!! The white out of wedlock birth rate has increased 6 fold since 1960. Where are all the negative reactions to white socioeconomic? Why then, do you think cutting the rate in half for blacks will improve black socioeconomic tremendously, when a 6 fold increase in the rate for whites produced no socioeconomic consequences for whites? In other words, obviously there is something else going on effecting socioeconomic other than out of wedlock births. Higher out of wedlock births, for blacks, is likely a SYMPTOM of their poor socioeconomic condition, rather than the cause.
You need to ask yourself why the out of wedlock birth rate was 27% for blacks in 1960, but only 4% for whites in 1960. You need to ask yourself why, since slavery, the rate has been higher.
His organization is called the Nation of Islam. You can't separate out into a "black organization" and an "anti-Semitic" organization. It's the same organization!
Let's go with your way.
If Jews were slaves for 400 years... Hmm, wait, they were slaves in Egypt for 400 years...
Never mind.
Let's move forward.
How are we fixing the problem? Money? You know very well that the money will go to golden chains and golden teeth.
So, you say that it's irreparable?
My point was that if you put the groups in the same time and space, plus experience, you will get roughly the same results. Hence, you need to have the Jews experience what black experienced in the same era that blacks experienced it and in the same way that blacks experienced it. Essentially that would require Jews to be oppressed by a group of humans that were visibly very different looking to the degree that Jews could not just change their names, accent or hide their religious practices to "blend in" to avoid oppression. They would have to have to live under the doctrine of their inferiority, have their religion stripped from them, have their names stripped from them and have their culture stripped from them and given a new religion to worship in which the most high was in the image of their oppressor.
Essentially, if Jews were oppressed like blacks.....they would no longer be Jews because their religion would have been stripped from them, as black indigenous religions from West Africa were stripped from blacks.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 05-01-2019 at 06:28 AM..
Right, but we basically already know all that. Its common knowledge for example, that people raised by alcoholics are at higher risk to drink problematically themselves or marry someone who does. Ditto people raised by abusers or who watch one of their parents be abused.
We don't do much with that knowledge now......even for white people.....so not sure where that would go.
Then there's the problem of practical solutions. Is a population that will not/cannot avail themselves of whats available to them now to escape poverty going to avail themselves of a solution that will likely end up being some form of mental health treatment?
Well....the truth is that we are constantly being bombarded with subliminal messages of white supremacy/black inferiority. That is the legacy of the US history and culture. Part of the solution would have to be to separate or insulate from this "radiation". Thus, its not only dealing with psychology, but media control and access.
I would propose that part of reparation be aimed at energizing an African nation, like Ghana, to be for blacks kind of like what Israel is for Jews. Black people need an option away from white people....because you have built a society IN YOUR IMAGE and FOR YOU. Most other ethnicity have base countries where their root culture was instilled in them, which gives them the self confidence and foundation to overlook how this country is designed for whites. African Americans don't have that. African who immigrate to America have that.....but not African Americans.
I never said I had respect for Farrrakans anti-Semitic organization. I said I had respect for his pro black organization. You might think that American democracy is the best in the world....but that does not mean you support liberalism, even though its one aspect of the American democratic process. Hence, I can favor the NOI, without being in favor of all aspects. Thus, to me, they are the greatest black organization that currently exists, even though I don't agree with everything about them. That is just like you think that America is the greatest country that ever exists, even though you don't like or agree with many things about America.
Riddle me this. If the performance of a race in America is strongly tied to the rate of births out of wedlock, why has there not been a major decline in the socioeconomic of whites from 1960 til now, given that the rate went from less than 5% then to about 30% today? Where is the increase in the white rate of poverty? Where is the increase in the rate of white criminal activity? Where is the increase in the rate of white unemployment, ect, ect? You can't find it and hence, in scientific reasoning a theory has to be REPRODUCIBLE!!! The white out of wedlock birth rate has increased 6 fold since 1960. Where are all the negative reactions to white socioeconomic? Why then, do you think cutting the rate in half for blacks will improve black socioeconomic tremendously, when a 6 fold increase in the rate for whites produced no socioeconomic consequences for whites? In other words, obviously there is something else going on effecting socioeconomic other than out of wedlock births. Higher out of wedlock births, for blacks, is likely a SYMPTOM of their poor socioeconomic condition, rather than the cause.
You need to ask yourself why the out of wedlock birth rate was 27% for blacks in 1960, but only 4% for whites in 1960. You need to ask yourself why, since slavery, the rate has been higher.
Black crime rate and single parent families were lower than that of whites in the 1930s. If the repercussions of slavery are such strong forces in current crime rates and the incidence of single parent families, why did it not affect blacks in the 1920s and 1930s?
from 1890 to 1950 black percentage participation in the work force was higher than that of whites.
His organization is called the Nation of Islam. You can't separate out into a "black organization" and an "anti-Semitic" organization. It's the same organization!
I'm done talking with a Farrakhan apologist.
Lol...look. I am a Christian.....my father was a baptist minister.....and he liked Farrakhan, despite him being a Muslim. Farrakhan is respected in the black community because of they way his organization is run, the fact that it is solely supported by blacks and hence no outside group can manipulate the message via funding and that he speaks truth to power in regards to the black white experience. Everything else is pretty much ignored. Nobody has the power and influence, in the black community, like Farrakhan, particularly among black males.....whether you like it or not.....he is the man. He is the ONLY person who could call for bringing a million black men to a location....and that call be answered. His group is well spoken, well behaved, well dressed and independent. I am not going to denounce them just because you say he is anti-semitic. I don't know if he is or is not. I really don't pay attention when he talks about Muslim beefs with Jews....that has nothing to de with me as I am a Christian.
Black crime rate and single parent families were lower than that of whites in the 1930s. If the repercussions of slavery are such strong forces in current crime rates and the incidence of single parent families, why did it not affect blacks in the 1920s and 1930s?
from 1890 to 1950 black percentage participation in the work force was higher than that of whites.
Think about what happened in the 1960s.
Most blacks in 1930 lived in low density rural areas. The rate of single families WAS NOT lower for blacks than whites in 1930. It has been higher since slavery ended. Blacks were FORCED into labor, forced into prison and chain gangs all through that period. The labor participation was greater because the BLACK WOMEN were forced to work as domestics taking care of white homes. White women did not have to work because the white man made all the money needed to provide for the household, while the black man was being paid little or nothing, being sent to jail to work as prison labor, ect....thus forcing the black women into the labor force taking care of white homes.
Slavery was full employment for blacks. You forgot to mention that.
Given the choice, would you rather be given a $500 TV (idk how much TVs actually cost...never bought one)? Or would you rather make 20x that every month?
With that being said, back to the topic. I'm against the idea of reparations. Giving or taking away people's money based on their race historically tends to be a very bad and slippery road to travel down on, no matter how benevolent the original intentions.
Sure they do. If they don't realize having babies out of wedlock, dropping out of school & not acquiring a useful skill, or doing drugs, or becoming a criminal is going to result in their being poor then they are pretty stupid and reparations in any form isn't going to help. They choose to be poor by the choices they make.
Yes it is harder to climb out of poverty than it is to maintain a middle or upper class existence if born into it, but life isn't fair. Opportunity abounds for those willing to make good choices and work hard. By dint of hard work my Dad got out of the slums he was born in and made his way into a lower middle class blue collar neighborhood. It wasn't much by most of our standards but to him he was hugely successful to own his own home and to have his large brood of kids going to school instead of having to work as a kid like he did.
By dint of hard work my siblings and I all made our way into middle and upper middle class and even upper class neighborhoods. The poor have to work harder and make more sacrifices to better their lot than do better off families, but that is a choice they either make or don't make. The govt has already done a lot to help blacks make that journey with affirmative action, set asides and other programs and the black middle & upper class has grown hugely as a result.
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