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For all those who are so concerned about the "theft" of their tax dollars to pay for entitlements which largely assist "undeserving" poor (who are merely lazy or illegal immigrants, apparently) or lower-middle-class Americans, I wonder why I don't see nearly as much vitriol and rancour directed at corporate America which receives far more in "corporate welfare" than most of America's social programs for low-income earners combined.
If any of you care to know the actual statistics and how they compare to government spending on social programs for the poor and lower-middle-class, this is an excellent article with lots of charts, graphs, and short explanations that captures the issue of corporate welfare in America quite well.
Make up your own minds, but educate yourselves first. Many of you will find a way to justify this practice in order to overcome any cognitive dissonance it might bring to the surface, but the fact is that corporate welfare costs you far more than any program for the poor and lower-middle-class.
I think it's necessary (and yet somewhat disheartening) that I have to point out that the majority of the poor in America do work, often more than one job. Are they lazy too? And to those who say they should not have children...that is an easy decision for a middle-class or wealthy family to make. They can see doctors, get prescriptions for birth control pills and IUDs, afford to buy condoms, and have the education to know what effective birth control is. Most of the poor cannot afford "family planning," or get a decent education that might help them avoid pregnancy. As conservatives chip away at Planned Parenthood, which provides these services to many poor women, it will become even harder for them to avoid having children in poverty. Should they be denied sex? Sterilized? How do you propose that these people avoid babies (especially since it's becoming increasingly difficult to have abortions in America's poorest regions)?
If you can read this link or any article that breaks down the figures regarding corporate welfare and still think the poor are the problem when it comes to government spending, then your loyalty to an ideology may have trumped your critical thinking skills.
"On June 28, 2012, the day that the Supreme Court upheld most of the Affordable Care Act, the sighs of relief were so loud that they drowned out one part of the Court's decision that has come to haunt the lives of millions of poor people around the country, and that also has come to represent the fanatical refusal of Republican politicians, specifically Republican governors, to associate themselves with anything that had anything to do with President Barack Obama. In his opinion upholding the ACA, Roberts allowed individual governors to refuse to accept the Medicaid expansion in their states. In other words, just because it came from an Democratic president—and because it came from that Democratic president—these governors violated one of the fundamental tenets of state government that date back to the dawn of human greed: they refused FREE MONEY!"
Pay for your own stuff. Other people’s healthcare issues are not my problem.
They chose not to have insurance or otherwise protect against such contingencies. Maybe they wanted to use the premium money on prostitutes or drugs. Regardless of their reason, it isn't my job to fix everything that goes wrong in everyone's lives, nor is it the government's.
Our population is so lopsided with those that have and those have nots...MANY can barely pay their rising rents today in our greed riden society. And yet afford all the insurance we SHOULD buy.
Maybe the U.S. should have a limit of babies being born so we can keep our population under control and everyone can have a DECENT job and income. A lot of us would not have been born, huh...too bad we can't control the WHOLE world population.
Here in North Carolina, the Republican-dominated legislature has consistently defeated any type of Medicaid expansion. What that means, is that a lower-middle class family who is “too rich” for Medicare (because the income limit to exclude eligibility is so low) and cannot afford ACA plans, is between a rock and a hard place.
A 40 year old woman with breast cancer from such a family will probably die from lack of treatment. This is especially true in rural areas, where the local hospital has closed down, and even charity care is only available in a major city many miles away. So she ends up untreated with Stage 4 cancer and dies at home.
This type of family is the kind that voted for Trump. So when you think about it, the Republican party in NC is killing off its own voters. Rural Republicans in NC, please enjoy your TrumpCare! Here's to your tenuous good health!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEmissary
I guess you don't know the difference between Medicare and Medicaid! Google it!
If any of you care to know the actual statistics and how they compare to government spending on social programs for the poor and lower-middle-class, this is an excellent article with lots of charts, graphs, and short explanations that captures the issue of corporate welfare in America quite well.
If you can read this link or any article that breaks down the figures regarding corporate welfare and still think the poor are the problem when it comes to government spending, then your loyalty to an ideology may have trumped your critical thinking skills.
First off, that article and web site is a farce and is sponsored by those with a very specific agenda = part of the loony fringe called utilitarianism. Mostly seems to be the premise that the US should pay for the worlds issues.
Secondly, The data cited is more than 10 years old and very biased to make the numbers work out. US Corporate taxes recently went from second highest in the world (and highest effective rate) to about average but it is still higher than most of European countries - not really corporate wellfare.
Thirdly, it is pretty funny that someone from Toronto Canada thinks they should have a say in US tax law.
Often It is. Drop out of school, have kids at 14, do drugs, commit crime, these lifestyle choices lead to self-created poverty.
This was a proper court decision.
If this is what you believe, you don't know much about the reality of poverty in America. The homeless you see photos of camping out in LA, or read about shooting up and ****ting in the streets of SF represent a tiny fraction of the poor in America.
Post-secondary school is SO expensive in the US. Not everyone can afford it, so they are stuck working mainly in the service sector, making sure people who whine about taxes get what they need when they need it. If you really want to help reduce poverty in America, support a higher minimum wage so that people who work in the service sector can make a living. Someone has to do those jobs or the country would collapse. Do you think it's fair that they have to live in poverty or near-poverty while you complain about having to pay taxes that help them when they're sick or make sure their kids get a free lunch at school? I thought these were Trump's people; the working class and working poor who struggle to get ahead but are one paycheque away from getting evicted from their homes.
I could go on for paragraphs about the poverty of service sector workers despite how integral they are to the American lifestyle, but there are so many other reasons besides laziness, drug addiction (which I would say is more a symptom of poverty than a creator of it), careless sex (as if no one on this board is guilty of that when they were young), lack of ambition, etc., etc.
How about health care? Everyone crows about the devastation wrought by Obamacare, but the ACA gave millions of people health care insurance who had never been able to afford it before. Was it perfect? No! Because Obama was naive enough to think he could be "bi-partisan" and negotiate with the GOP by using the template for a successful healthcare plan Governor Romney instituted in Massachusetts as a basis for a national healthcare program.
But the GOP refused to play ball and what came out was a half-measure that was better than what existed before, but certainly not single payer like just about every other developed country in the world has. The federal government offered massive subsidies to every state to help them get citizens on the rolls and pay for their health care, but what did many red states do? They refused the money. On principle. They preferred their residents to not receive health care rather than accept money from a Democrat-controlled government. They wanted Obama's ACA to fail, even if it was on the backs of the sick and dying. Yet it didn't fail, because despite its many problems, it was better for most people than what existed before. And if you disagree, then you should write a GOP senator or Representative and ask them why they haven't been able to repeal such an unpopular and ineffective law, even when they controlled every branch of government for two years?
But my point is that poor health is another major reason why poverty exists in America. There are many people living in cars, rooming houses, and out on the street because they cluld not pay medical bills. These people work and contribute to society, but that seems to be hard for many to understand because, according to many members of this forum, poor = useless. And then there are the thousands of Americans who are too sick to work because they cannot afford treatment. There are people rationing their medication, not seeing their doctor for serious health conditions, and avoiding the hospital at all costs because they are one medical bill away from losing what little they have.
There are so many types of poverty that have nothing to do with laziness or poor choices, but it seems like once a person accepts that, they may have to accept a moral obligation to pay taxes to help their fellow citizens who are struggling in a tough economy. Sure, the job numbers look rosy, but take a closer look at the kinds of jobs many people have and how many jobs they are working, and you realize that maybe 25% of the nation works high-paying white-collar-type jobs while most everybody else is making just enough to survive. They rely on things like SNAP and other forms of government assistance because there is no longer an economy that will pay high wages to men and women willing to work hard. Now, if you don't have just the right degree (or combination of degrees) it is extremely difficult to live without any government assistance. Do you really want to live in that kind of a Hobbesian nightmare of a country?
Sure, if you are doing well, to hell with everyone else. That seems to be the ethos of many here. However, through my own life experience I've seen how quickly one can go from prosperous to poverty line on account of forces completely beyond their control. Am I lazy because I live at the poverty line and require some government assistance for prescriptions and other necessities? What if I told you I have three degrees from one of the twenty best schools in the world, a diploma from a specialized college, and work 40-50-hours a week (only 25 paid) helping newcomers to Canada build successful lives here? Am I lazy? I am single with no children, youngish, but have significant health problems. I recently had to take a medical leave of absence. In this world of 0 entitlements many of you dream of, I never would have been able to take that time, would be exponentially sicker, and hell, I wouldn't have been able to afford the health care anyways, so may as well dump me in the lake and let a more "successful" citizen take my place.
I could go on, but I don't think it matters.
Still, for anyone who might want to have their notions of what a poverty in American looks like, here are some non-partisan websites that will provide you with data about poverty in the US, and help you understand who the poor are, why they are poor, and what they need to be more prosperous:
First off, that article and web site is a farce and is sponsored by those with a very specific agenda = part of the loony fringe called utilitarianism. Mostly seems to be the premise that the US should pay for the worlds issues.
Secondly, The data cited is more than 10 years old and very biased to make the numbers work out. US Corporate taxes recently went from second highest in the world (and highest effective rate) to about average but it is still higher than most of European countries - not really corporate wellfare.
Thirdly, it is pretty funny that someone from Toronto Canada thinks they should have a say in US tax law.
Firstly, I'm an American citizen, and I am not trying to have a "say." This is a discussion forum and that is what I am doing: discussing. However, I have often thought about moving to the States, so this does concern me. And it's not just an American problem, but Americans seem to be the least aware of it.
Second, in this post, I am simply pointing out the contradictions inherent in the arguments of many on this board regarding social programs for the poor. If the website I posted previously is your main problem with my position, here are two others. I hope they are more to your liking.
This one is from the Hill (2018) and discusses a number of bi-partisan studies and reports you can link to directly from the article that all come to the same conclusion: that corporate welfare is a massive waste of taxpayer money. It does none of the things its proponents claim (corporations and their lobbyists, mainly) and manages to fly under the radar while something like food stamps get some people in a lather:
Third, even Conservatives know the score. This article from The American Conservative, dated August 2018, does not have the detailed figures the other website does, but it comes from the home team and reaches many of the same conclusions. This is not a partisan issue. There are tens of thousands of studies, articles, and reports written about this same topic. Many are available online, for your convenience:
TOkidd, I'm afraid your parents failed you. The way it works is that we have opportunities and its up to us to take advantage of them or not. If we don't, then that's on us. It's not everyone else's job to pay for our failings in life.
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