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View Poll Results: Do you prefer Obama-like positions or AOC-like positions?
Obama / Moderates 31 52.54%
AOC / Progressives 16 27.12%
I'm a Republican that just wants to vote 12 20.34%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Yesterday, 10:33 AM
 
Location: Old Hippie Heaven
18,470 posts, read 8,323,389 times
Reputation: 10767

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMESMH View Post
I don't like Trump either, but he provides enough truthful fodder overall without having to mislead people. The bolded is chronologically impossible. All of Trump's deferments and reclassifications re military service were between 1964 and 1972, the Vietnam War ended in 1975, and construction on Trump Tower (where his Manhattan penthouse is located) didn't start until 1979 and wasn't completed until 1983.
Trump of course lived in hovels until he struck it rich.
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Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM
 
64 posts, read 7,050 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
I was surprised that the vast majority of candidates are attacking Obama's policies...

The media is saying most Democrats favor Obama over the more progressive side of Democrats like AOC.

I want to know what our C-D Democrats think.
The democrat party is broken up into three factions. You have the business Dems or moderates. Than you have the people like myself who are inbetween Moderate/Progressive or quasi Dems. Than you have the progressive/far-left Dems which is controlled by the woke/intersectionality/SJW crowd. I prefer someone like Tulsi Gabbard, Pete, or Andrew Yang over an AOC, or Obama.
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Old Yesterday, 10:42 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,234 posts, read 474,084 times
Reputation: 1169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Democrats took back the house campaigning as progressives.
I think it is more to do with keeping the house from GOP control to protect us from Trump.

I'm voting democrat no matter who it is even thought I don't agree with most progressive policies.

I usually vote for who the best candidate is but we are in dire times with a dictator like President right now so anything will be better for the country.

I just hope this doesn't create a 2016 crisis all aver again and people stay home or people only vote for candidates local to them and skip voting for president.
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Old Yesterday, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
3,041 posts, read 1,669,401 times
Reputation: 3583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter_Sucks View Post
Democrats took back the house campaigning as progressives.
That is simply not true. Democrats recaptured the House in 2018 because 40 moderates took seats Republicans won in 2016. Yes, they focused on kitchen table issues like health care, etc. But no, far more moderate candidates won the house in 2018 than progressive candidates.
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Old Yesterday, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
3,041 posts, read 1,669,401 times
Reputation: 3583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
What's the point of electing moderate Democrats if all they do is perpetuate the status quo? Look at Biden's healthcare plan: a $750 bil band-aid on Obamacare. All that does is tinker around the edges. You'll continue to have millions of people with crappy insurance, like $8,000 max out of pocket insurance with high copays, that forces people to choose between healthcare and bankruptcy.

The only thing Joe Biden offers is four years of Not Trump. That's it. No meaningful progress on any major issues.
The ACA was the status quo? Since Harry Truman the Democratic party has been trying to get universal health care passed. Only LBJ and Obama have truly moved the needle.

You can't blame Obama for serving as President during an incredibly tribalized/polarized era. Lots of red states would have had higher health coverage under the ACA/Obama but they refused the increased coverage on ideological grounds.

The reality is ALL of the candidates this cycle are FLAWED. I haven't decided who I will vote for in the primary. Hillary was a horrible candidate.

The fact is truly gifted political candidates like Bill Clinton and Obama don't come around very often. Those two were the most gifted pols of their respective generations. Bill Clinton made mistakes early on in his Presidency that prevented meaningful health reform from passing. Obama learned from those mistakes.
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Old Yesterday, 12:03 PM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
9,673 posts, read 4,410,496 times
Reputation: 5396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
I respect your opinion but I disagree. Trump wants to run against "Sleepy Joe" because he's the easiest candidate for Trump to beat. We ran a centrist named Hillary and Trump beat her. Her mushy middle of the road positions did not excite younger voters or hardly anyone else for that matter.

The way to beat Trump is with a progressive like Warren, Sanders or Harris who can articulate a strong clear pro-middle class agenda of universal healthcare, affordable college and living wages. That's how you excite the youth vote to come out in droves. Sanders beats Trump by 6 points in recent polls.
Look at the polls (take them with a grain of salt). Biden beats Trump hands down. If Biden runs a half-way competent campaign he can win. Not so with any of the others.
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Old Yesterday, 12:08 PM
 
Location: alexandria, VA
9,673 posts, read 4,410,496 times
Reputation: 5396
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335xi View Post
How so and please be objective in your answer, show me you actually have a brain instead of giving the typical CNN points... racist, liar, meanie doo doo head, think important issues on the economy, immigration, healthcare, energy independence, etc.


Biden would be fine as president, I'd prefer Trump, but Biden wouldn't guarantee the next recession like the other candidates would...
"...show me you actually have a brain instead of giving the typical CNN points..." You make a snotty insulting comment like that and you expect me to use up my time giving you a serious answer?
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Old Yesterday, 12:14 PM
 
13,003 posts, read 4,704,618 times
Reputation: 5310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astral_Weeks View Post
That is a bit of chicken and the egg debate. Of course the insurance and pharma industry are going to give to candidates that want to keep private insurance. That doesn't mean all the candidates "on the take" are in their back pockets.

But I'll be the first to critique our campaign finance system. Needs major reform but the conservative courts have clipped those efforts since the Citizens United decision. Trump is only stacking the courts with more conservative judges. All the more reason to defeat him.

I absolutely agree we need to have universal coverage and that it should be meaningful coverage that delivers real health care to all. But you can have both universal coverage and still have a private health insurance system. Switzerland does it.

If you put a gun to my head and my only choice was single payer or keeping our current system forever, I'd take single payer. But that is a false dichotomy.

From a pure policy perspective, IF it were up to me I think we should try something along the lines of the Wyden-Bennett “Healthy Americans Act” (HAA) which was proposed 10 years ago when the ACA was moving through Congress. The HAA had liberal support and some moderate Republican support.

In essence, the HAA would create a centrally financed, publicly regulated private market in health insurance. Every American would get a health voucher to purchase a plan of their choice. Public standards would ensure that all Americans enjoy coverage at least equal to what members of Congress enjoy.

https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/t...ughing-matter/

The moderates in the last debates made some important and practical political points on health care. Tim Ryan very correctly pointed out that many unions have hard won "cadilac" health plans.

Many unions balance solid health care benefits against less aggressive wage increases. Running on a platform that would phase out those plans won't necessarily play well in high union density states...like the fractured blue wall states where every vote is going to count.
Do you have any proof that labor unions and their leaders have come out against Medicare-for-all in order for them to keep their so-called "cadillac plans"? How can it be cadillac to be totally dependent on the employer for the health and well being of your family? Thats an enormous lopsided balance of power favoring the employer over the worker.

Its true that the enormous and excessive costs of health care is one of the main reasons why wages have been so stagnant, but thats an argument against employer based health care, not an argument to cement it.

No candidate support a Swiss system where the profit motive is destroyed for insurance companies. Insurance companies would be up in arms if any of the "moderates" supported that. And why would big pharma support candidates that dont obey their demands? Its obviously corruption, and I dont see whats so moderate about that. I havent seen any of these people support any meaningful change to our campaign finance system. The problem is far, far deeper than simply Citizens United and all so-called centrists know this very well of course. But meaningful change to the campaign finance system would certainly threaten their campaign funding.

Last edited by PCALMike; Yesterday at 12:25 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,665 posts, read 11,677,724 times
Reputation: 9188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
What's the point of electing moderate Democrats if all they do is perpetuate the status quo? Look at Biden's healthcare plan: a $750 bil band-aid on Obamacare. All that does is tinker around the edges. You'll continue to have millions of people with crappy insurance, like $8,000 max out of pocket insurance with high copays, that forces people to choose between healthcare and bankruptcy.

The only thing Joe Biden offers is four years of Not Trump. That's it. No meaningful progress on any major issues.
You donít want to tell 180 million Americans you are taking away their health insurance.
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Old Yesterday, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Boston
8,148 posts, read 2,368,722 times
Reputation: 5810
Quote:
Originally Posted by r small View Post
Look at the polls (take them with a grain of salt). Biden beats Trump hands down. If Biden runs a half-way competent campaign he can win. Not so with any of the others.
lmao...polls? Dems? lol
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