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Old 09-18-2019, 03:30 PM
 
4,124 posts, read 837,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spikett View Post
Well said. Zionism is just a war waiting to happen. Not interested in what could end up a world conflict because "god" told these people this was their land.
^^^ And some people keep insisting that being against Israel has nothing to do with demeaning attitudes toward "these people."
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Old 09-19-2019, 09:51 AM
 
13,617 posts, read 3,467,476 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
^^^ And some people keep insisting that being against Israel has nothing to do with demeaning attitudes toward "these people."
There is a VERY big difference between protesting some things Israel does and "being against Israel." Conflating the two is an all too common tactic to prevent or misrepresent legitimate criticism when appropriate (of any country or government).

With people who cannot distinguish between antiSemitism and legitimate criticism such as this, there simply is no point in discussing the points of fact any further.

Something like trying to discuss the merits of civil rights with a racist. The bias deeply ingrained. Mind made up. The "blind spot" just too big. Simply "does not compute."
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Old 09-19-2019, 03:18 PM
 
4,124 posts, read 837,225 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
There is a VERY big difference between protesting some things Israel does and "being against Israel." Conflating the two is an all too common tactic to prevent or misrepresent legitimate criticism when appropriate (of any country or government).

With people who cannot distinguish between antiSemitism and legitimate criticism such as this, there simply is no point in discussing the points of fact any further.

Something like trying to discuss the merits of civil rights with a racist. The bias deeply ingrained. Mind made up. The "blind spot" just too big. Simply "does not compute."
That guy who talked about "these people" (meaning Jews) and their "god" revealed negativity towards Jews. He was NOT criticizing the Israeli government; he was making a demeaning comment about Judaism. If being anti-Israel has nothing to do with the anti-Jew sentiment, why bring Jewish beliefs into the discussion at all?

The irony is that many of us who defend Israel and the absolute imperative that it continue to exist as a safe haven against antisemitism - nothing to do with god - is that it went right over your head.

The fact that you can't see the anti-Jew sentiment in the PP's remark ("these people and their god") that....yes.....no point discussing. He offered no criticism of Israeli policy; just criticism of Jews.
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Old 09-19-2019, 03:25 PM
 
3,233 posts, read 875,582 times
Reputation: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
That guy who talked about "these people" (meaning Jews) and their "god" revealed negativity towards Jews. He was NOT criticizing the Israeli government; he was making a demeaning comment about Judaism. If being anti-Israel has nothing to do with the anti-Jew sentiment, why bring Jewish beliefs into the discussion at all?

The irony is that many of us who defend Israel and the absolute imperative that it continue to exist as a safe haven against antisemitism - nothing to do with god - is that it went right over your head.

The fact that you can't see the anti-Jew sentiment in the PP's remark ("these people and their god") that....yes.....no point discussing. He offered no criticism of Israeli policy; just criticism of Jews.
Per the thread title, is it an absolute imperative that Israel exist in the West Bank in order to be a "safe haven against antisemitism." By "exist" this means annexation along with Jewish settlement. Military control of boundaries is altogether another issue (and IMHO defensible, to use a bad pun).
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Old Today, 09:31 AM
 
13,617 posts, read 3,467,476 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
That guy who talked about "these people" (meaning Jews) and their "god" revealed negativity towards Jews. He was NOT criticizing the Israeli government; he was making a demeaning comment about Judaism. If being anti-Israel has nothing to do with the anti-Jew sentiment, why bring Jewish beliefs into the discussion at all?

The irony is that many of us who defend Israel and the absolute imperative that it continue to exist as a safe haven against antisemitism - nothing to do with god - is that it went right over your head.

The fact that you can't see the anti-Jew sentiment in the PP's remark ("these people and their god") that....yes.....no point discussing. He offered no criticism of Israeli policy; just criticism of Jews.
I see the challenge of breaking through antiSemite mentality little different from the challenge of reasoning with people who defend Israel policy right or wrong, for whatever their reasons. I suspect, however, the problem of antiSemitism might be lessened some with proper reason, logic and judgement regarding Israeli policy wrong-doing. "Two wrongs don't make a right" sort of thing...
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Old Today, 09:38 AM
 
462 posts, read 65,801 times
Reputation: 246
Go ahead. These Muslims say they want to fight. I'm tired of everyone treating them like spoiled children. It's time to take off the gloves off. They commit terrorist attacks - bombing innocent women and children - everywhere. In the West, in the East (Sri Lanka, Philippines, Indonesia). And we control all the nukes. Let's fight them like they seem to want.
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Old Today, 09:41 AM
 
469 posts, read 200,983 times
Reputation: 626
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
I see the challenge of breaking through antiSemite mentality little different from the challenge of reasoning with people who defend Israel policy right or wrong, for whatever their reasons. I suspect, however, the problem of antiSemitism might be lessened some with proper reason, logic and judgement regarding Israeli policy wrong-doing. "Two wrongs don't make a right" sort of thing...
Horrible post.
You say:
1) The mentality of an anti-Semite is "little different" from those who defend Israel, and
2) Anti-Semitism is caused by Jews who defend "Israeli policy wrong-doing"

You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Old Today, 09:45 AM
 
13,617 posts, read 3,467,476 times
Reputation: 1720
Quote:
Originally Posted by spectator11040 View Post
Horrible post.
You say:
1) The mentality of an anti-Semite is "little different" from those who defend Israel, and
2) Anti-Semitism is caused by Jews who defend "Israeli policy wrong-doing"

You should be ashamed of yourself.
Maybe...

Or perhaps my attempt to explain is lost on you.

I am referring to the challenge of minds made up regardless facts, truth, reason or logic. No matter what causes someone to be closed off to fair reason and logic, the challenge is the same, regardless the nature or cause of the stubborn insistence. Wrong is wrong and whenever the discussion can't simply be about good judgement in such regards, the discussion becomes impossible.

I would argue it's people who can't understand this simple truth that should be ashamed, because again, "two wrongs don't make a right," and needless to say, Israeli policy is not always right. No more than antiSemitism is justified. Right?
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Old Today, 10:14 AM
 
3,233 posts, read 875,582 times
Reputation: 1858
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenPineTree View Post
Go ahead. These Muslims say they want to fight. I'm tired of everyone treating them like spoiled children. It's time to take off the gloves off. They commit terrorist attacks - bombing innocent women and children - everywhere. In the West, in the East (Sri Lanka, Philippines, Indonesia). And we control all the nukes. Let's fight them like they seem to want.
In actuality, the Israeli-citizen Muslims recommend that Gantz and the Blue and White Party form the next government. This would end Netanyahu control that depends on support from the Israeli far right fringe. (What happens next is not yet clear for Arab Joint List support is not enough for Gantz to meet the 61 seat minimum.)

Israeli Arab power derives from the ballot box, not from committing terrorists act and so no need to bring out the nukes! In response, Netanyahu plays the terrorist card:

“There are now two options,” Mr. Netanyahu said in a video clip soon after the meeting between members of the Joint List and the president. “Either there will be a minority government that relies on those who reject Israel as a Jewish and democratic state and glorify terrorists who murder our soldiers and civilians, or there will be a broad national government.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/22/w...netanyahu.html
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