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Old 04-29-2008, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
19,521 posts, read 20,924,611 times
Reputation: 13858

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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
Since Bush likes to quote from the Bible I suggest he have a look at Matthew 6:6.

And is anyone actually foolish enough to believe that those who do not pray are actually going to start because of some proclamation? Maybe it needs the backing of another non-binding resolution from Congress also?
I think you're missing the point. Proclamations are not incitements to proselytization. They are expressions of the President's faith and his invitation to others who are so minded to join him.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I dont feel compelled to pray when others do. I do, however, observe a respectful silence.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:41 PM
 
21,044 posts, read 19,577,089 times
Reputation: 5930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
No, YOU have to get use to it. Unless of course you are suggesting that 80% of Americans are fascists?

Are you?

Prayer is part of this nations fabric - and it is in the government and it will not be going away.

You are not going to force those in government to stop saying "and May God Bless America".

You are not going to force those in government from offering prayer in times of crisis.

Yes, YOU have to simply deal with what is, and what will be.


The government declares a day of prayer telling you when to pray...the government invokes god whenever they feel like it....



Question:


When DO you object?



When they tell you WHO or what to pray to?...oh, excuse me, they already do.

Will you object when they tell you.....

HOW to pray?


Where to pray?


You CAN'T pray?





It ALL comes in little increments...little soft kitten paws ...while no one pays attention.....
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,229,177 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who?Me?! View Post
It ALL comes in little increments...little soft kitten paws ...while no one pays attention.....

Seems this idea, of a Day of Prayer, has been around since the Continental Congress - They had one even then

I guess all those that were part of the Continental Congress were fascists too -
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:49 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,200 posts, read 41,051,541 times
Reputation: 29946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeledaf View Post
I think you're missing the point. Proclamations are not incitements to proselytization. They are expressions of the President's faith and his invitation to others who are so minded to join him.

.


I think the point is the place to express his faith is in the church/temple of his choice, not on the national soapbox provided by the presidency.

I'd much rather he use that soapbox de some indication he is a competent leader and statesman, something he has so far failed to do. I'm less than impressed by dog & pony shows on naval ships when little has been accomplished, by claims an oppressive regime has ceased to exist when that regime's recent nation attempt proves that not to be true.

And like Lincoln I think Bush had better start worrying not if God is on our side but if we are on God's side. I don't think causing tens of thousands of deaths and injuries without seeking every means to avoid them places him on God's side.
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:51 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,200 posts, read 41,051,541 times
Reputation: 29946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Seems this idea, of a Day of Prayer, has been around since the Continental Congress - They had one even then

I guess all those that were part of the Continental Congress were fascists too -

And many members of that Congress were also slave owners, what existed then isn't necessarily what we should condone now. Or should we?
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
19,521 posts, read 20,924,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
And many members of that Congress were also slave owners, what existed then isn't necessarily what we should condone now. Or should we?
Slavery was legal then. We fought a war to get rid of it.

The last time I checked, no war has been declared to make religion illegal.
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Old 04-29-2008, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
19,521 posts, read 20,924,611 times
Reputation: 13858
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
I think the point is the place to express his faith is in the church/temple of his choice, not on the national soapbox provided by the presidency.

I'd much rather he use that soapbox de some indication he is a competent leader and statesman, something he has so far failed to do. I'm less than impressed by dog & pony shows on naval ships when little has been accomplished, by claims an oppressive regime has ceased to exist when that regime's recent nation attempt proves that not to be true.

And like Lincoln I think Bush had better start worrying not if God is on our side but if we are on God's side. I don't think causing tens of thousands of deaths and injuries without seeking every means to avoid them places him on God's side.
It could be argued that one of the few competencies Bush has shown has been in his expressions of religious faith. That you harbor such personal bitterness and relapse into political partisanship would seem to disqualify you from further comment on the topic.

It's all about that "respectful silence" thing I mentioned previously....
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Old 04-29-2008, 02:02 PM
 
415 posts, read 556,237 times
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The meaning of a legal document is determined by what is done after it is adopted. The words "all men are created equal" in the Declaration of Independence means "all men, except Negroes, are created equal."
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Old 04-29-2008, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Near Manito
19,521 posts, read 20,924,611 times
Reputation: 13858
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlashTheCash View Post
The meaning of a legal document is determined by what is done after it is adopted. The words "all men are created equal" in the Declaration of Independence means "all men, except Negroes, are created equal."
Sadly, most definitions of "men" at that time did not acknowledge slaves as men. Unless I am mistaken, however, freedmen, including Negroes, were indeed included in the definition.

Perhaps someone can help us out with this point...
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Old 04-29-2008, 02:31 PM
 
415 posts, read 556,237 times
Reputation: 33
The meaning of the Constitution is determined by what is done after it is adopted. The words "Congress shall make no establishment of religion" in the Constitution means "Congress has authority over religion", because George Washington added "so help me God" to his oath of office.
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