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Was there a case where a black person didn’t actively resist the arrest and still got shot?
YES.
There was even a case where an officer stood on the neck of a handcuffed person after he was no longer resisting, you may have heard of the incident. It normally involves an officer with the same mindset.
1. I think the sheer amount of times it actually occurs (not necessarily being shot, but everything else) flies under most people's radars. It doesn't get reported unless (maybe) someone gets shot. This isn't just my experience, it's the same experiences that my friends have also had. Many of them were with me when some of these things happened... yet none of us have been arrested or have criminal records. I don't think these types of interactions are as infrequent as you are suggesting. I think they just don't make the news.
2. Minorities, and black men especially, absolutely have more to fear from the police that non-blacks. I wish that weren't true, but it is. It just is.
3. I don't want anyone to think that I am necessarily against cops. Like you, I think overall they are okay, and have a tough job. But there are more than a few bad apples, and certainly some bad training, or just bad habits. And personally, I'm surrounded by cops in my life. I have cousins who are cops, friends from elementary school who became cops, girlfriends who were cops, and I've responded to plenty of reference checks for my friends who were trying to become cops. My friends son just graduated from the academy and became a cop, and I'm thrilled for him! In my professional life, I often work closely with the police, and at one point even had to carry a police radio and speak in 10-code (I tend to work in largely poor, urban settings). And those two cops that got ambushed in CA, that's the community I grew up in, and the first thing I did was to look their names up and see if it was one of my friends (which is a pretty scary few seconds to have). Unlike just about everything and every topic on this board, I don't believe it's an "all or nothing" scenario. Cops aren't all good, or all bad...no profession is. But they definitely have some work to do, and the stories that we hear in the press aren't made up, and aren't hysteria, but an unfortunate way of life for many of us.
4. Good for you, seriously. Because if you really are that skeptical, then that means you haven't had to experience the things that we have. I get this same response all the time when I tell these stories to my colleagues, going back at least 30 years. And every time someone reacts in that manner it lets me know that I need to keep telling these stories, because clearly people don't realize what's really going on. And professionally, a lot of the clients I work with have had these same experiences, and react to them whichever way they do, and it helps when I am the one working with them, because I understand, I've been there. And if I didn't have that experience, and I showed even a hint of skepticism, I'd lose them, most likely forever. I will continue to tell these stories, because there are people like you (And I don't mean that in a derogatory way at all) who are still skeptical that it happens. And I've learned over the years that the only way to get people to realize that it still happens, is to keep telling the stories.
Anyway, good dialogue here. You originally asked if there was ever a black person who didn’t actively resist the arrest and still got shot, and the posters have given you a few real examples. I imagine there will be a few more too.
1. There's enough DWB incidents to believe it is a real thing.
2. I think the number last year was something like 9 unarmed Blacks getting shot by police. Most think it is more like 1,000. And there was a study by a Black Harvard professor that showed, much to his surprise, that whites were as likely to be shot by police as Blacks. Now he did find more mistreatment of Blacks. But Harvard has been trying to silence him as he has told inconvenient truths. There was a similar study from I believe Michigan St. The incidents that do occur get covered 24/7 by all the news networks and made to seem more common than they are. And the ones that get the most press are often the wrong ones, like Ferguson and Louisville. "Hands up, don't shoot" was a lie. And in Louisville, the boyfriend opened fire at the police first. His girlfriend was caught in the cross-fire. The most dangerous thing for Blacks is the belief that they are at risk. That will lead to behavior that causes problems.
3. As in any profession, there are bad apples. What's important is to make sure local agencies deal with those guys and don't cover it up, like the Catholic Church did with its pedophile priests.
4. I don't know if its the mentality or the training (to keep control of the situation?), but many police start to get hostile if you challenge them, even on something like a traffic ticket. You just need to say yes sir, no sir and file a complaint if there is a problem.
It may not be politically correct.......but it works.
Cops wouldn't bother with it if it didn't.
But I don't think that cops in general profile based on race alone.
You don't see many black guys in suits getting pulled over on Wall Street......
I dunno. I used to live in a suburban town that was adjacent to Paterson, NJ, a rundown, crime-ridden small city that lost its industry in the 1930s and never recovered. There was one road out of Paterson into our town, which then led to the main, winding road that took you past nice houses and out to a main highway. My train station was on that road, and I'd often walk the mile home from the train.
I'd been to night court for traffic tickets, and there were a lot of arrests in the area from habitants of Paterson coming out to the nicer town to do B&Es or shoplift at the stores in the business district. Most of those people in court for those crimes were black. So, the police would patrol that road attached to the one coming out of the city looking for suspicious characters.
However, during my walks home on that road, I witnessed four or five times the cops pulling over black drivers in business suits who were obviously, like me, on their way home from work. These men were not going to be jimmying doors and breaking windows in their suits and ties at 5:30 in the afternoon. I watched as I walked by, and you could see the drivers trying to remain neutral and calm when being asked to step out of their vehicles while the cop glanced inside and ran their paperwork. It was obviously nothing more than DWB.
Re, Wall Street, hmmm, I don't see any cars to get pulled over in... Most of the street, particularly the west end near the Stock Exchange, has been closed to traffic since 9/11, and it's a narrow street only eight blocks long to begin with. Took this about four years ago while out walking at lunchtime.
I dunno. I used to live in a suburban town that was adjacent to Paterson, NJ, a rundown, crime-ridden small city that lost its industry in the 1930s and never recovered. There was one road out of Paterson into our town, which then led to the main, winding road that took you past nice houses and out to a main highway. My train station was on that road, and I'd often walk the mile home from the train.
I'd been to night court for traffic tickets, and there were a lot of arrests in the area from habitants of Paterson coming out to the nicer town to do B&Es or shoplift at the stores in the business district. Most of those people in court for those crimes were black. So, the police would patrol that road attached to the one coming out of the city looking for suspicious characters.
However, during my walks home on that road, I witnessed four or five times the cops pulling over black drivers in business suits who were obviously, like me, on their way home from work. These men were not going to be jimmying doors and breaking windows in their suits and ties at 5:30 in the afternoon. I watched as I walked by, and you could see the drivers trying to remain neutral and calm when being asked to step out of their vehicles while the cop glanced inside and ran their paperwork. It was obviously nothing more than DWB.
Re, Wall Street, hmmm, I don't see any cars to get pulled over in... Most of the street, particularly the west end near the Stock Exchange, has been closed to traffic since 9/11, and it's a narrow street only eight blocks long to begin with. Took this about four years ago while out walking at lunchtime.
"Wall Street" was a euphemism for well to do areas where crime is low.
The people you saw getting pulled over were driving through a higher crime area.
Isn't Patterson pretty much a high crime area all over?
It's my opinion that the vast majority of Americans including the white majority, want the same thing for you and all law-abiding citizens.
I was responding to someone who tried to justify such treatment by pointing to statistics about Black crime. I know what the statistics are. I do not care. I let said person know I don't care. I think said person was trying to make someone feel stupid for not wanting to be treated like a perennial threat.
I wasn't talking about all Americans. I was telling one person where I stand. If I am obeying the law, I should be treated like such. Guilty until proven innocent is what happens in dictatorships and martial law.
I do think it is tough to be a young Black man in this world because many people no matter how hard they try not to be racist there is still a stereotype that is hard to shake.
Personally I tend to keep an eye on young shady looking white or black guys when I'm in close proximity to them but I think that is just human nature.
I think the Police are leery of young Black guys for their strength and potential for fast escalation to violence, blame the chip on the shoulder, so they approach them with their guard up and that is the start of the issues with the interaction.
I can't help but think IF young black guys would stop acting like thugs and fools and take the chip off their shoulder than they would start diminishing the negative stereotype that many people carry. What is sad is the riots, the arson, the shoplifting, the looting, the clashing with Police, the now terrorist group called BLM and their shady practices, and the endless and needless murders that occur everyday in so many cities, all of these add to the negative stereotype which leads to negative interactions and avoidance.
I'd say the number one way to avoid being shot by the Police is to avoid getting into trouble and if you do get pulled aside drop the attitude and do not fight. If you are guilty of the crime they accused you of then face up to your actions.
Perhaps people don't want to 'rock the boat,' but when these incidents occur, they should be immediately reported to the officer's agency. File a complaint, especially if you are handcuffed and proned out for no good reason. "checking to see if the car was stolen" is not probable cause to pull someone over, unless you see a punched ignition, the plates don't match the vehicle, etc. And the officer has to be able to articulate that.
He was at the precinct 8 am Monday morning in his uniform with its JAG insignia to file a formal complaint. He was the one receiving the “yes, sir”, “no, sir”, “I apologize on behalf of my officers” treatment. He received an official letter of apology but still….. it is not easy to erase the frustration of being treated like a common criminal based solely on the color of his skin.
Some of you folks are getting a taste of what it’s like to be vilified based on race. I don’t approve of it and repeatedly say it needs to be stopped immediately, as it is just wrong, but perhaps some of you might want to think how upset it is making you and consider how it might color the attitudes and actions of someone who has been subjected for decades to that kind of treatment.
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Most of the street, particularly the west end near the Stock Exchange, has been closed to traffic since 9/11, and it's a narrow street only eight blocks long to begin with. Took this about four years ago while out walking at lunchtime.
