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Old 08-03-2022, 09:32 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,846,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
For starters, when you create a monster, don't be surprised when it comes back to harm you.

Aside from that, the CCP kept everyone from Wuhan from traveling in the rest of China, but allowed them to travel the world. Then they tried to blame America for it.
Those two things among others indicates efforts to have others suffer, and to deny responsibility.

What in the hell are they doing gain of function research in a lab connected to the CCP military to begin with.

That is not correct. There were no international flights from Wuhan after domestic flights from Wuhan were canceled. Well, there were a few empty and repatriation flights, but that's it.
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Old 08-03-2022, 09:36 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
Wuhan/Hubei is not even close to bat colonies that spread coronaviruses. The closest relative of our friend SARS-CoV-2 are from Yunnan province (only 95-97% similarity which for viruses means 100s of years of evolution if natural). Which is around 1,500km away.

The most damning thing to me is that any intermediate evolutionary bridges of the furin cleavage site would not make the virus transmissible in either humans or bats. We’re talking astronomically small odds this was a virus adapted to bats and leaped to humans naturally. Only plausible scenarios are lab leak or some other, hereby not identified host animal.

The original Wuhan wild type virus also behaved incredibly strangely. 40% of cases were asymptomatic while 5% of cases were severe, requiring hospitalization. Young kids (0-6) who are usually the second most susceptible group to respiratory viruses after the elderly due to immune naivety, were completely spared.

The Omicrons are behaving far more naturally. Maybe 10% or so are now asymptomatic while 0% or so need hospitalization. Kids are the second most impacted group after the elderly.

Afaik, the closest relative to the CoV-2 virus is actually from Laos:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02596-2

But maybe there are more recent findings I don't know of, yet.
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Old 08-03-2022, 10:06 AM
 
3,112 posts, read 946,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Afaik, the closest relative to the CoV-2 virus is actually from Laos:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02596-2

But maybe there are more recent findings I don't know of, yet.
This is the study I’m talking about: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32015507/

Yunnan or N. Laos, basically same area. These are the bats where this coronavirus could make a (highly implausible jump by adding the furin cleavage site) but they’re almost 2000km from Wuhan.
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Old 08-03-2022, 10:41 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
25,947 posts, read 24,846,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AfricanSunset View Post
This is the study I’m talking about: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32015507/

Yunnan or N. Laos, basically same area. These are the bats where this coronavirus could make a (highly implausible jump by adding the furin cleavage site) but they’re almost 2000km from Wuhan.
There are wet markets all over SE Asia. Some of those farmers and traders might have gone to Wuhan, which used to have a giant market. Wuhan is a pretty big, central city.


China is building high-speed train lines now in SE Asia, I wonder if that might facilitate the spread of new viruses
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:20 AM
 
Location: New York Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker View Post
Brian just made a brief statement saying that he didn't think China purposely planed to spread the Coronavirus because they are suffering more than we are. They have super-strict lock-downs. He mentioned how a man went out to buy some groceries and wasn't allowed to go back home.

I agree because if it had been planned, they would have had strict controls in place to protect their own people and their economy. It wouldn't make sense for them to be sloppy about it and end up suffering more than we are.
I have to assume that lax lab or wet market standards led to it. It was probably gross negligence, not deliberate action. The Spanish Flu, 1918 Flu Pandemic That Killed 50 Million Originated in China. The bubonic plague probably emanated from China, see Black Death.

These were both long before the Communist era. The country's congestion, disorganization and slipshod standards likely has some role.

Last edited by jbgusa; 08-04-2022 at 11:57 AM..
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
38,752 posts, read 22,521,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LongevitySeeker View Post
Brian just made a brief statement saying that he didn't think China purposely planed to spread the Coronavirus because they are suffering more than we are. They have super-strict lock-downs. He mentioned how a man went out to buy some groceries and wasn't allowed to go back home.

I agree because if it had been planned, they would have had strict controls in place to protect their own people and their economy. It wouldn't make sense for them to be sloppy about it and end up suffering more than we are.

Also, after reading a book on this subject, I don't think the virus came from the lab in China. It could have but it's much more likely that it came from the "wet market" where animals were sold and slaughtered. And that's because that market was huge. I always pictured it being like a small roadside stand because I never heard anyone on the news, or talk shows, give the size of the market. But then I read that the wet market had 500,000 square feet of booths where animals were sold and slaughtered.

At least the lab had some safe guards in place, but this huge market had no safe guards at all. And viruses were known to be likely in this area. There were warnings about this possibility since around 2008. It was often suggested that the market be shut down because vendors could have been infected or shoppers could have been infected, so it could very likely have been a breading place for new strains of viruses to develop. But it was never closed because it was a multi-billion dollar business.
I think most people believe that the Wuhan lab leaked a bat virus they were editing, and it was accidentally released into the population out of pure incompetence.

What I think the Communist government of China did, was to make the official Party decision to allow infected Chinese citizens unrestricted travel around the world. The CCP wanted the virus to be transmitted around by their people, to infect the world and ruin everyone's economy, not just China's.

If China, or any nation, wanted to unleash a killer virus on the world, they would have perfected a vaccine for themselves first. Then they would have released it simultaneously all around the world to hide the source. This was a bumbling lab which accidentally released a virus on their own population, then hid the truth from the rest of the world.
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
38,752 posts, read 22,521,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I have to assume that lax lab or market standards led to it. It was probably gross negligence, not deliberate action. Author John Barry, who wrote The Great Influenza initially believed that pandemic started in Kansas and now thinks it was more likely China. The bubonic plague probably emanated from China. The country's congestion, disorganization and slipshod standards likely has some role.
Like so many of the plagues of the world, like Bubonic plague, SARS, H7N9 (birdflu), Asian flu in 1950s, COVID came from China
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Old 08-04-2022, 11:58 AM
 
Location: New York Area
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Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Like so many of the plagues of the world, like Bubonic plague, SARS, H7N9 (birdflu), Asian flu in 1950s, COVID came from China
China wants to be thought of as an advanced country. It really isn't.
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Old 08-04-2022, 12:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
China wants to be thought of as an advanced country. It really isn't.
But it has been advancing on an unprecedented time scale.
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Old 08-04-2022, 12:13 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,493 posts, read 17,398,026 times
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Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
But it has been advancing on an unprecedented time scale.
They'd like you to think so but I think much of it is illusory, much as the villages maintained by General Potemkin were.
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