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But the fact of the matter is that smoking outside really doesn't affect anyone but the smoker. You can make an argument that smoking indoors in harming non-smokers (although a large minority of studies support the null hypothesis and OSHA standards don't support it either), but smoking outdoors is another matter.
Maybe not you personally, but there is too much hostility in the anti-smoking movement and too much focus on smokers themselves to be about a general concern over the health of nonsmoker exposed to secondhand smoke.
What on earth is a "large minority"? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
Show me a study that supports your claim that second-hand smoke indoors isn't hazardous to people's health. That's completey false.
You hit the nail on the head. They can deny all they want, but they show it in most of their own posts. That would be why I don't post that much in here, like talking to high school kids a lot of the time.
Really, AJP? We're hostile? Then why did YOUR hostile and attacking posts earlier in the thread mysteriously disappear? Why did another smoker's posts have mod cuts all over them? Don't even try to make excuses. You don't post much in here anymore because you can't manage to do so without becoming enraged. At least WE are rational.
But the fact of the matter is that smoking outside really doesn't affect anyone but the smoker. You can make an argument that smoking indoors in harming non-smokers [cut for absurdity], but smoking outdoors is another matter.
Maybe not you personally, but there is too much hostility in the anti-smoking movement and too much focus on smokers themselves to be about a general concern over the health of nonsmoker exposed to secondhand smoke.
True, as long as it's nowhere near another person. What non-smokers hate is when a smoker walks down a crowded sidewalk and blows it in our faces, or sits down on an already occupied bench and lights up, etc.
It's one thing to be already smoking in public - a nonsmoker shouldn't approach and then be upset that they have to smell it.
But when WE are just minding our own business and our personal space and health are violated through no fault of our own, and the smoker thinks he/she has every right to do so, THAT is where I draw the line.
Heck, just the other day, I stopped at a 7-11 on my way home with my dog, and left the car windows cracked for her. When I returned just a few minutes later, a couple of guys in an SUV had pulled up next to my car and were just sitting there smoking. Instead of using the ashtray in their own dang car, at least one of the guys was knocking ash off his cigarette outside his window, right next to the open window of MY car. When I saw this, I had no problem asking him, "What are you trying to do, get ash in my dog's eyes??"
He apologized right away, but it just goes to show, smokers don't THINK about anyone but themselves. Correction, anyone but their addiction.
They might be polite in every other aspect of their lives, but when it comes to their ADDICTION, they simply do not have access to the same part of their brain that controls judgment and consideration for others.
Conclusions The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed.
From the largest secondhand smoke study ever conducted. A cohort study no less.
And what do I mean by a large majority? I mean that roughly 40% of secondhand smoke studies find no risk or even a reduced risk. Oddly enough these are usually the larger studies and the cohort studies.
True, as long as it's nowhere near another person. What non-smokers hate is when a smoker walks down a crowded sidewalk and blows it in our faces, or sits down on an already occupied bench and lights up, etc.
It's one thing to be already smoking in public - a nonsmoker shouldn't approach and then be upset that they have to smell it.
But when WE are just minding our own business and our personal space and health are violated through no fault of our own, and the smoker thinks he/she has every right to do so, THAT is where I draw the line.
Heck, just the other day, I stopped at a 7-11 on my way home with my dog, and left the car windows cracked for her. When I returned just a few minutes later, a couple of guys in an SUV had pulled up next to my car and were just sitting there smoking. Instead of using the ashtray in their own dang car, at least one of the guys was knocking ash off his cigarette outside his window, right next to the open window of MY car. When I saw this, I had no problem asking him, "What are you trying to do, get ash in my dog's eyes??"
He apologized right away, but it just goes to show, smokers don't THINK about anyone but themselves. Correction, anyone but their addiction.
They might be polite in every other aspect of their lives, but when it comes to their ADDICTION, they simply do not have access to the same part of their brain that controls judgment and consideration for others.
I once had these neighbors a few years ago. They used to flick their cigarette butts over their fence onto my path. They would also let their dogs run loose in the neighborhood, argue and scream at 3AM and then have loud, screaming sex at 4AM, and so on.
What do you think had more to with the cigarette butts being flicked over my fence? That they were smokers or that they were inconsiderate white trash?
I thinks that this needs reposting because most of us are just damn tired of the nanny state that many of you seem to want.
THOSE BORN 1920-1979 TO ALL THE KIDS WHO SURVIVED the 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's!!
First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they were pregnant.
They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes.
Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs covered with bright colored lead-based paints.
We had no child proof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking.
As infants & children, we would ride in cars with no car seats, booster seats, seat belts or air bags.
Riding in the back of a pick up on a warm day was always a special treat. We drank water from the garden hose and NOT from a bottle.
We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and NO ONE actually died from this.
We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank Kool-aid made with sugar, but we weren't overweight because, WE WERE ALWAYS OUTSIDE PLAYING!
We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.
No one was able to reach us all day.And we were OK.
We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes After running into the bushes a few times, we learned to solve the problem.
We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or CD's, no cell phones, no personal computers, no Internet or chatrooms........
WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!
We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no lawsuits from these accidents.
We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.
We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays, made up games with sticks and tennis balls and although we were told it would happen, we did not poke out very many eyes.
We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just walked in and talked to them!
Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!
The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!
These generations have produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!
The past 50 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas. We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned HOW TO DEAL WITH IT ALL!
If YOU are one of them CONGRATULATIONS!
You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated so much of our lives for our own good .
While you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how brave (and lucky) their parents were.
Kind of makes you want to run through the house with scissors, doesn't it?!
Gee, I've got no idea how on earth I survived without seatbelts, bike helmet, living in a house and in a car with clouds of SHS,eating (gasp) fried foods.... Now I wonder what the mortality rate for kids is today vs the 60's-90's?
I once had these neighbors a few years ago. They used to flick their cigarette butts over their fence onto my path. They would also let their dogs run loose in the neighborhood, argue and scream at 3AM and then have loud, screaming sex at 4AM, and so on.
What do you think had more to with the cigarette butts being flicked over my fence? That they were smokers or that they were inconsiderate white trash?
Fair enough.
But I think my point is also true. My parents and brothers aren't generally inconsiderate people, and they're intelligent, but that doesn't keep them from smoking in the house when I stay there. My brothers say my asthma is "in my head," despite the pulmonary function test that says otherwise. I can't stay with my own family because of their collective addiction. (Fortunately, my brothers have almost completely quit.)
If you'd read my posts as you indicated you had, you wouldn't have made your "point" in the first place.
As expected, you're reinforcing the reason you're on my ignore list. Back to ignoring you it is!
Woohoo!
Aw, you can't find a way to prove me wrong, so you're taking your ball and going home.
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You don't post much in here anymore because you can't manage to do so without becoming enraged. At least WE are rational.
Nice try though..
