Pit Bulls Have No Place In A Civilized Society! (ideologies, vs, gun owners)

[Swampmonster]

Originally Posted by momonkey

Dogs know right from wrong?

Seek help!

I think they have a very base understanding of when they are doing something displeasing if they have been cared for....my Heelers aggravate the hell out of me by digging holes in the yard to catch moles.....although I appreciate the fact that they are killing the moles,I do NOT appreciate the fact that you will almost flip the mower when you hit the holes so I scold them for it.

All I have to do is point at the hole and stare at them and the guilty one will try to slink off while the other two just wag their tails...so yes,that proves to me that they do have some sense of what is right and wrong as their owner sees it and their teaching dictates.

Same goes for kids...if you do not take care of them and teach them nothing but theft and violence you will most likely end up with a worthless criminal who doesn't know right from wrong.

[stycotl]

Originally Posted by MisterNY

You guys are still at it, over these dumb Pit Bulls? Forget about it.

All I'm saying is if one gets in my yard, he'll be treated like a thief (putting me and my family in danger). Yes, they are vicious. And I will be prepared for it.

and that is fine, so long as you are smart enough to do the same with the other big, aggressive dogs that enter your yard. failure to do so just because the dog that hopped your fence isn't a pit would be ignorant.

To those who love them, good for you. All I can say is, it will only be a matter of time before you become their lunch. Once it happens, tell us about it (once you see the light).

so what do you make of the majority of pit owners that never have a problem with them, that have the dogs for 14 years or so, from pup to old age, and bury them without ever having an incident? quirk of fate? are we all liars or crazies or something?

I'm glad they are being banned in some cities/counties. To those who don't like the dogs or feel strongly about their danger, put your money and energy out there to get them banned in your city/county. It's only a matter of time before these dogs do something stupid to prove your point (that they're vicious).

As I stated earlier, any dog can bite, but Pit Bulls do it in prevalence. They also do more damage.

feel free to back up your claims with some kind of evidence. otherwise, your words are only opinions that you are trying to pass off as fact.

pits are strong, but there are many dogs that are stronger. for those that haven't been listening, pits aren't even that big. for their size, they are strong and energetic, but there are still much larger and much stronger dogs that can do much more damage when they bite or when they jump on people.

pits are also aggressive, but not any more so than most dogs that are among my "high maintenance" group. border collies are traditionally much more aggressive than pits. i am curious to hear why the pit-haters continue to ignore this–i am pretty sure that i already know, but any of you out there are free to defend your rejection of the fact.

Originally Posted by MisterNY

Your neighbor and her dog were lucky! That's all I can say.

One day it may not be like that. Deep down you know there's a chance something can and will go wrong with your Pit Bull losing it and attacking someone. (Just be prepared for that phone call)

one day it may not be like that with any breed. are you still ignoring the fact that pit bulls are dogs, and that all dogs are aggressive predators by nature?

are you trying to claim that only pit bulls can be 'unpredictable?'

i still see a lot of people arguing logical fallacies here...

i am going to repeat it, even though i can tell that momonkey and some others are not listening, but pit bulls are dogs. they are normal animals. they are not any more unpredictable than labs or chihuahuas. all of them share the instinct to hunt and kill; all of them share the instinct to be pack-aggressive.

fact: most pits never have a problem. most pits never bite a human, never snap one day and go on a killing spree. wanna see the correlation? ok: most dogs never bite anyone; most dogs never snap and go on a rampage either.

why is it that pits share that similarity with other dogs? because they *are* dogs.

feel free to refute any of that, momonkey, or are you going to just continue to ignore it?

you are indulging in what is known as an emotional reaction, which is a very blatant logical fallacy, and is the prime ingredient in every war started throughout history. instead of crusading against muslims, atheists, or christians, however, you are crusading against a breed of dogs.

it is still a crusade though, which amounts to a witch hunt. if you don't believe me, feel free to read up on the mechanics of an emotional reaction and how it applies to a logical debate.

either way, i am very interested in having you detail why you continue to ignore the facts that we are presenting. ignoring them won't make them go away.

[MisterNY]

You have some valid points, but you are also in denial that most aggressive/vicious acts are committed by Pit Bulls. Simply yes or no?
Try to refute that.

While many of your points are valid, yet vague concerning Pits, you still strike me as someone who defends them for one reason, the fact that you may have owned one or a few with no negative experiences.

I just say, "It's only a matter of time". I on the flip side have known and seen these dogs in being the most vicious in action. Point blank. You can talk about logical fallacies, witch hunts all you want.

It's all good and all, but why are Pit Bulls banned in Miami, some cities in Colorado, and not Dobermans, Rottweilers, Yorkies, Cocker Spaniels?

Explain it to us, like we're 5 year olds. I don't see a ban on German Shepherds, Golden Retrievers and Labradors. You're telling me these law makers have a vendetta against Pitt Bulls? Let's be real. A few exceptions will not cut it.

These dogs are vicious. Their vicious actions are committed in prevalence compared to any other breed. Point Blank!! I have my tool ready for one if it enters my yard. That's all I'm saying. These dogs are more of a liability that anything else.

While some want us to embrace them along with other breeds, in a Kum baya fashion, I doubt it will happen.

[Mearth]

Originally Posted by MisterNY

You have some valid points, but you are also in denial that most aggressive/vicious acts are committed by Pit Bulls. Simply yes or no?
Try to refute that.

No problem.

Originally Posted by MisterNY

These dogs are vicious. Their vicious actions are committed in prevalence compared to any other breed. Point Blank!!

Point WRONG. You have yet to state anything other than your opinion.

We DOG lovers have FACTS on our side.

Independent temperament testing shows ALL of the bully breeds (American Pit Bull Terrier, Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier) as scoring HIGHER than Border Collies, Chihuahuas, Dalmations, Greyhounds, among others.

And 2 of those bully breeds scored higher than German Shepherds and Golden Retrievers!

ATTS - American Temperament Test Society, Inc. - ATTS Breed Statistics - page 1 (http://www.atts.org/stats1.html - broken link)

Originally Posted by MisterNY

Explain it to us, like we're 5 year olds. I don't see a ban on German Shepherds, Golden Retrievers and Labradors. You're telling me these law makers have a vendetta against Pitt Bulls? Let's be real. A few exceptions will not cut it.

Yes, actually. It's called feel good reporting. It's also called fear-mongering. They tell you what to be afraid of, and demonize it, so that you will feel safe.

If pit bulls are banned, the media will only go after Rots or GSDs next, so they have a target. I blame the general public more than the media - they're always looking for something or someone to blame outside of themselves, and the media hands it to them on a silver platter.

Not only that, but even when reporters aren't even trying to be biased, they regularly mistake other dog breeds for "pit bulls" because they assume that ANY dog that becomes vicious is a pit bull breed! Google "pit bull" and "mistaken" and you will find thousands of cases of mistaken identity - including one for a Shih Tzu, and another one where the real culprit was a FERRET

Now quit spewing hate and go learn something.

[Cav Scout wife]

Originally Posted by momonkey

I've had it with these glassy eyed lunatic Pit Bull owners who simply refuse to understand that their dogs are a danger to all children at all times. Their is no safe Pit Bull ever. How many more times will we need to hear of a baby, small child or senior citizen being ripped to shreads by these ignorant animals before we realize that they cannot be made safe? I propose we ban this most vicious of dog breeds nationwide.

Punish the deed, not the breed. If they were SO bad, why does the WSP use this breed as LE dogs? Why did Petey (Lil Rascal's show) never once hurt any of the crew or actors on the show, and why was Helen Keller/Teddy Roosevelt/Michael J Fox able to own this breed w/o issue?

Yeah, cause this dog is SUCH a vicious beast.

[Cav Scout wife]

Originally Posted by irishvanguard

Pit Bulls are bred (not trained!)to lock their jaws on their hunting prey, which is low to the ground such as wild hogs. Never advisable around children (low to the ground or playing on the floor).

Care to spread any more MYTHS around?

The APBT DOES NOT have locking jaws.

[Glitch]

Originally Posted by MovingForward

Those aren't "facts." Educate yourself.

You are correct, they are not facts. It is a fictional work put together by those who hate one specific breed of dog and advocate for breed specific legislation.

Even in their own "study" states:

Compiled by the editor of ANIMAL PEOPLE from press accounts since 1982, this table covers only attacks by dogs of clearly identified breed type or ancestry, as designated by animal control officers or others with evident expertise, who have been kept as pets.

Then goes on to say:

Both pit bull terriers and wolf hybrids tend to elude easy legal definition; neither can they be recognized by genetic testing.

So if Pit Bull Terriers cannot be recognized even by genetic testing, how can they claim the dogs in their list were a "clearly identified breed?" Obviously they have an agenda, and facts just get in their way, so they just make them up as they go.

[Cav Scout wife]

Originally Posted by irishvanguard

This "food aggressive" stuff is just silly talk from so-called pet trainers or animal "psychologists". LOL

MOD NOTE: video may be disturbing to some


YouTube - Dogo Argentino vs. Boar 1 12.04.08

You have just lost ALL credibility, by posting a video of a DIFFERENT dog breed that is usually mistaken for an APBT.

Way to go!

[Cav Scout wife]

Originally Posted by irishvanguard

you are the one without the facts----and I assume you know the pedigree of all pit bulls 100 generations back. If you claim that you do, you expose yourself as a liar. Again, I do not advocate a ban. But you are being ignorant and untruthful toward a breed that does need special handling.

Back it up a sec kiddo.

If you get a dog from a REPUTABLE BREEDER, then you WILL know the ped/generations that far back if not further. I could trace back my former APBT (died of old age) bloodline to 1843, and all of the dogs in it.

My breeder was a professional, and only bred the best dogs she could, which was evident in my dog, since he died at age 11, with a spotless record. (ie, his teeth never touched human flesh except in his puppy teething days)

So YES, some of us DO know our dogs and their bloodlines, and their genetics.

[Fomalhaut]

Dogs come from Wolves. I am sure a not well trained group of Rottweiler's would be much worse than a group of pit bulls. Many of the dog fighting people give gun powder to dogs, and that makes them crazy.