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I do understand the shower issue, but is that really a good reason to have unfair rules that allow certain soldiers to talk all about their personal lives and live normally while others are constantly under the threat of being fired if they dare to mention their personal lives?
A shower takes about 3 minutes out of your day. If the hetero guys are such weenies that they're afraid that a gay guy might be looking at them in the shower during those 3 minutes, then the military should build separate shower stalls for gays and straights.
With the millions spent on maintaining Don't Ask Don't Tell, you could build thousands of separate shower stalls and still have money left over.
So you're for separating soldiers based on sexuality? That's my point, either way you slice it, there will be some form of seperation between gay and straight. This doesn't exist now, because it's not out in the open. When the issue is marriage, I keep hearing separate is not equal, but why push for it on the Don't ask, don't tell issue?
We're not talking about race here, we're talking about sexuality. I've pretty much stated my reason for saying this. What's your question?
HOW DOES "DON'T ASK DON'T TELL" PROTECT GAYS?
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BTW, love the way you had to throw the ole black and gay comparison in there. I tell ya, where would the gay community be without African Americans.
Sorry if you can't handle the comparison, but it's a valid one to me and to many others. You're saying that people should be happy that the law is forcing them to conceal who they are. I strongly disagree, and I don't see how anyone can believe that it's a good idea to do that to people.
No, but do you ignore the needs of the minority too?
I'd rather have "men, women, and gay" than the way it is now: Straight men, straight women, and shut-up-you-damn-qu**rs-or-your-fired.
True, but that's why the solution lies somewhere else. It would have to be something that eliminates soldiers bringing their personal lives on to the base. However, considering that we're talking about people who at any minute can be called to war, that's not going to happen. Like I said, I don't know what the solution is. It will take someone smarter than I to figure it out. But I think until we do, don't ask, don't tell should remain in place. But without the penalty, if someone is "outed". Removing it now, screams segregation.
So you're for separating soldiers based on sexuality?
It's sexual orientation, not sexuality.
But yes, as I said, if the shower issue is the big argument against allowing gays to serve openly, then build separate showers.
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That's my point, either way you slice it, there will be some form of seperation between gay and straight. This doesn't exist now, because it's not out in the open.
It's pretty basic psychology that tells us it's not a good thing to force people to lie or cover up who they are. If you had to hide who you are, I'm sure you'd understand a little better.
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When the issue is marriage, I keep hearing separate is not equal, but why push for it on the Don't ask, don't tell issue?
I'm only pushing for it as a response to superficial issues like all-male-showers as a reason to continue discriminating against certain groups.
Again (how many times do I have to say it?), separate-but-equal would be better than shut-up-you-damn-gays-or-you're-fired.
A question that no one has been able to answer: Why is the United States Military the only military in the modern world that can't handle soldiers being openly gay?
It will take someone smarter than I to figure it out.
Good. That tells me that there's an excellent chance that this will be resolved.
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But I think until we do, don't ask, don't tell should remain in place. But without the penalty, if someone is "outed". Removing it now, screams segregation.
Good. That tells me that there's an excellent chance that this will be resolved.
Huh?
Not going to argue with you, I have an opinion (a very valid one I might add). I'm also not going to insult you because you disagree with me but I will say as a former soldier myself I clearly see both sides of this issue. You are only looking at it from one. Yours. However, I'd like you respond to a question in my original post: what's the difference between a straight man and a gay man sharing a shower/living quarters than a man and a woman? Why is one more acceptable than the other?
However, I'd like you respond to a question in my original post: what's the difference between a straight man and a gay man sharing a shower/living quarters than a man and a woman? Why is one more acceptable than the other?
To answer your question bluntly, the difference is that a straight man and a gay man are two men, and man and a woman are a man and a woman. I don't think I ever said that one grouping is more acceptable than the other.
As I've said, I do see the cause for concern about the showers, and that's why I think that separate showers would be an acceptable solution. (I think I've said this at least three times now.)
I don't see a need for separate living quarters for anyone - gay, straight, male, or female.
I happend to do a quick google search on gays in the Canadian military because Canada lifted the ban on gays in the military allowing them to serve openly in 1992. Here is an interesting study that touched upon much of what you guys are discussing- it's short and well worth the look for either side of the debate.
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I don't think I ever said that one grouping is more acceptable than the other.
