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I happend to do a quick google search on gays in the Canadian military because Canada lifted the ban on gays in the military allowing them to serve openly in 1992. Here is an interesting study that touched upon much of what you guys are discussing- it's short and well worth the look for either side of the debate.
Sorry if you can't handle the comparison, but it's a valid one to me and to many others. You're saying that people should be happy that the law is forcing them to conceal who they are. I strongly disagree, and I don't see how anyone can believe that it's a good idea to do that to people.
Please tell me again, how race and sexual preference are the same? A Gay man, is first a man. Sexuality is secondary, the only reason the gay community continues to insist on this ridiculous comparison is for their own very selfish reasons. Any thinking person would realize they are two very different things but if we're not on the same page about this, then it shows me that I'm talking to a self absorbed person.
They'll say that Canada is a socialist country and dismiss it.
I do admire your fortitude.
they can say what they want - but soldiers are soldiers and Canadian soldiers don't think of themselves as socialist - they see themselves as soldiers. I reckon a soldier in either country feels more kinship with eachoter than they do with any civilian on either side of the border.
Please tell me again, how race and sexual preference are the same?
Ramanboy did an excellent job of answering that question already.
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Any thinking person would realize they are two very different things but if we're not on the same page about this, then it shows me that I'm talking to a self absorbed person.
I guess we're not on the same page. And I guess I'm talking to a brick wall.
i don't know what to think of all this, I'm so sick of gays being thrown under the bus, I voted for obama because he was the best man for the job, in the primaries however, I voted for hillary...
If obama's administration does not make something happen in this term, to address the inequalities of gays and lesbians, he won't get my vote a second time....with that said, I certainly will not be voting for any republican either, unless they get somebody new that isn't a crazy christian, corporate greed proponent, or in the case of sarah palin, a stupid cow...
sex happens. on base. if it is prosecuted amongst the gays, it should also be prosecuted amongst the straights. that wont happen. there would be too much money wasted.
this thread has been done. i was waiting for the gay shower scenario to come. the parallel with men and women showering together.
its funny that people see the gays as over sexxed individuals who are going to be lurking in the showers. thats not the case at all. they do their job, they do their business they move on.
this isnt asking for outright acceptance of homosexual acts or behaviour, no more than desegregation of the milatary forces asked for acceptance of blacks by bigots. it just said that these folks are to be integrated and left alone and respected and allowed to do their job with out persecution (informal or officially sanctioned).
this isnt asking for anything other than to treat these soldiers as equals. as for the comfort of other soldiers. DO YOU REALLY THINK SOME GAY GUY IS GOING TO BE RUNNING AROUND IN A RAINBOW G STRING? you have the same misconceptions about these honorable soldiers as do the rest of those opposed to stopping the persecution of gays in the military.
these guys just want to serve without the fear of what they do in the bedroom being used against them.
its not that hard to understand. my military buddies have known that for years.
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Originally Posted by LovelyinLa
You are absolutely right, sex in the military does happen but it shouldn't happen on the base, it should happen on their weekends off. The problem here IMO is that it's an argument that pits reality vs idealism. Ideally, everyone on the base would be open and accepting to the homosexual lifestyle. Ideally, sex wouldn't be allowed on the base, it would be strictly about training, but that's not realistic is it. The truth of the matter is, you have pretty much everyone in America represented on a relatively small base. Everyone has different backgrounds and beliefs. In the macho world of being a soldier, most straight men, are just plain uncomfortable around gay men. Sure, they can go to chow with them and maybe hang out with them on leave, but if you've ever been on a military base you'd realize that there's no privacy. So the average straight man would be extremely uncomfortable showering with a gay man. That's the reality.
In my opinion, the don't ask don't tell policy protects them. What's the difference between a straight man and gay man showering together, than a man and a woman. Not every man is attracted to every woman, but we don't subject women to it, so why do it to the men (and women!!). This is a very slippery slope and I wonder if the people who are fighting for it, have thought about where it leads. If don't ask, don't tell is repealled then you have to take the feelings of the soldiers who are uncomfortable with sharing quarters with gay people into consideration. After all, we're talking about sexuality not race. It's a valid reason, so what then? Do you ignore the needs of the majority (straight)? No, the only solution would be to eventually segregate the gay soldiers. Kind of like they do in prison. Is this what they want? Men, Women and Gay?
I agree that gay people should be treated fairly since they bleed the same as everyone else. However, repealing the don't ask, don't tell isn't the solution. I don't know what it is, but I can't help but wonder if the people who are fighting so hard for this have ever even been on a military base.
probably learning from the womens rights movement, or the workers rights movements. taking more notes from ghandi.
there are plenty of parrallels between all these social movments that have adovacted equal treatment of all. you dont see that?
its not rocket science.
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Originally Posted by LovelyinLa
We're not talking about race here, we're talking about sexuality. I've pretty much stated my reason for saying this. What's your question?
BTW, love the way you had to throw the ole black and gay comparison in there. I tell ya, where would the gay community be without African Americans.
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