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I'm sorry to point out the flaws in your side's ideology, but I'm not just some leftist partisan hack. I have observed this increasingly violent behavior and have grown concerned. At this point, it is all coming from the right. So, let's dive into your accusations:
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Originally Posted by nononsenseguy
Things are "beginning to improve"? What dream world are you living in? Things are getting worse day-by-day. I have had very little work since last November (conicidentally, I'm sure, right after the election results), and one of my clients, in the landscaping and excavating business is experiencing the same. He told me just the other day, "Bill, there isn't any work. No one is doing anything. My phone doesn't even ring". That is telling.
As I'm sure you are aware, your individual situation cannot be extrapolated to the entire nation. I'm sorry you're struggling, but all national indicators are moving in a positive direction - from housing to retail sales to the stock market to decreasing unemployment claims (always the last indicator to turn). Yes, things are beginning to improve. We should all hope it continues.
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As to yuor accusation that the "right wing media is ratcheting up the propaganda and lies about Obama's policies" Obama himself is the biggest liar of all. He is contradicting what is known so far about what is absolutely part of the bill; i.e. there will be no more private insurance. It will be illegal for insurance companies to sell private plans (page 16 of the bill, according to the Wall Street Journal report)
The subject was about the "death care" / "kill granny" claim, which is a bald face lie by the Republican party / insurance lobbyists to conjure fear about a health care system that actually covers all.
I haven't studied the issue you discuss, but I've heard nothing to indicate something as radical as no private insurance. It may be true, but that'd be pretty tough to push through Senate, even if it got through the House.
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"Crashing Town Hall meetings"? These are ordinary citizens angry about what they are learning about what this administration is trying to shove down our throats with no debate whatsoever. Most of these people have not been activists of any kind ever in their lives. Further, it is their Constitutional right to voice their opinion, and oppose what the government is doing if they do not agree with it.
Yes. Crashing town hall meetings. Study the issue before responding in the future. One group (the tea party group) has sent memos and instructed members in proper ways to disrupt meetings and create anarchy.
The stated goal of this orchestrated presentation is media attention. It is not some genuine, broad-based groundswell of concern. It is a prank carried out by one group and, as experts say, should not be construed as widespread.
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No one was yelling "terrorist" and "kill him" at campaign rallies. That is a lie, and the FBI has investigated and found no proof of any such thing. This was a fabrication of the leftist media.
Yeah, just like the "leftist media" made Palin look bad. I heard Palin speak from her own mouth and I heard with my own ears calls of "terrorist" and "kill him". If the FBI didn't, that's fine. I know what I heard. Study the videos yourself.
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Clinton, "one of the most successful presidents"? According to whom! What a laugh! Care to site some sorces? Polls?
A poll of professional historians rated Clinton as 15th best president, another as 16th best. (Bush, in contrast, came in 41st and 36th). I'd say 8 years of peace and prosperity is as much as you can ask for from a president, and he delivered.
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country shall stand in need of its experienced patroits to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams 1776.
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country shall stand in need of its experienced patroits to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams 1776.
Absolutely. That's what we did when we voted them out in '06 and ;08.
God bless America and the patriots that rose up to save our nation.
I haven't read the rest of the posts...just want to respond to this one.
I think there is a significant minority of the population who is as you describe. They aren't only a threat to the President, but to us all. I have no idea what the answer is; I want to say it lies in education, but these people are anti-"elite", anti-intellectual.
I don't know that the fear is so irrational.
You must be referencing the gray haired protesters opposed to the Kenyans health care plan.
Thank you for your well reasoned, rational response. Let's analyze your charge.
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Absolutely true. Whether it lasts or not is anyone's guess, but as of right now the Dow is on a consistent upward climb, house sales are up significantly, retail is up, car sales are up (Ford posted first positive sales)...
Absolutely true. There is a well-orchestrated campaign to make people fear health care reform that is based on lies (like "kill granny", which if you read the legislation is not at all what it is calling for and is completely voluntary).
Absolutely true. Just heard an NPR story on how it is a coordinated campaign by the same group that organized the tea parties with the only goal being to disrupt the order of the town hall meetings, not engage in a policy debate. A memo issued by the organizer stated precisely that.
As for the rally comment, I heard with my own ears those statements. Some might charge they were plants, but that has never been verified. So, as it stands, people at Palin and McCain rallies were calling Obama a terrorist and one called out to kill him. True.
Absolutely true. Just happened this week.
Professional historians have ranked Clinton 15th overall amongst presidents, so that statement is true as well.
In conclusion, my statement was not "a bunch of lies". I await your apology
she is heavily armed gathering information...yeah right
Yeah, Obama lied during a debate as well as an interview and said McCain people were screaming "Kill him", I was at the rally and NO ONE screamed out "KILL HIM". The only screaming there was, was from some left nut job who was disrupting Palin and McCain's speeches. Of course there were also the Obama fans wearing their T shirts that said " Palin is a CUN%". But no Obama threats.
Just more of their lies.
I looked up your posts and you have never made the claim that you were at this rally until now. Can you explain this difference in reality to me?
I hope that someone chronicles this thread as the ultimate implosion of the right wing conspiracy theorists of 08. We've seen some of the wack-jobiest responses since Nov here. There has to be an underlying sociological phenomenon that is worth studying from this.
Maybe the patriotic act will allow use to determine who posted what and were and then analyze the database to figure out who the dangerous "moslems" are. God damned (and that god is the christian god) those terrorists loving bastards. They would probably stop me from saying what I want to. Obviously it's because they hate america.
You must be referencing the gray haired protesters opposed to the Kenyans health care plan.
Now I'm confused, LogicWing. To this point you have maintained a stance that you do not know for sure whether Obama is American or not.
Now you assert a conclusive claim that he is definitively Kenyan. You are officially in the same boat as that raving lunatic woman in the red shirt at the Delaware townhall meeting. She not only questioned his origin of birth, but went to the point of claiming to know he was born in Kenya without any evidence. Thus, negating all of her potential credibility.
I'm sorry, but you officially lose with that post. (plus, it's "Kenyan's", not "Kenyans" - possessive, not plural).
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I heard Palin speak from her own mouth and I heard with my own ears calls of "terrorist" and "kill him". If the FBI didn't, that's fine. I know what I heard. Study the videos yourself.
