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You two are truely misinformed. Firstly, I am not a smoker!! As a matter of fact I am allergic to cigarette smoke. Secondly, restaurants and bars are NOT "public" places, insinuating that the public owns these establishments. They are privately owned businesses, who INVITE the public to attend. You should have no more right to enter these establishments than I have the right to enter your house and dictate what lawful acts should occur there. If you don't like the smoke, the crowds, the food, the atmosphere, or any other aspect of these PRIVATELY-owned businesses, stay away, tell your friends and family, but otherwise leave these hard-working entrepenuers to run their businesses as they feel best.
Actually, I disagree, since those that don't smoke have a desire to attend a concert/event that is being held w/in an establishment that allows smoking - where then is my opportunity to enjoy time listening/viewing musicians w/o the smell permeating me and my clothes?
Where in the Constitution is the "opportunity" to attend a concert mentioned? Noone has the obligation to provide any type of entertainment to any other person. If you want to listen to a particular musician, buy his/her cd. If you want to see that same person, buy the DVD. You have no "right" to be able to see or hear any musician or any other entertainment for that matter.
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As to bars, as mentioned above by jeremeyk482, in my brief travels around the country [NY, Mass., CA, etc.], I've set foot in many bars that have been smoke free for various lengths of time - and each and every one of them has told me when I've inquired that they have actually seen business either stay steady or [majority] have seen an increase.
Locally, Ft Wayne, IN has passed a bill that prohibits smoking w/in such establishments, and takes effect June 1st - I plan on showing my support and visiting them more often [while being very aware and cautious of DUI's and such - I don't drink that much anyhow].
Given that your claim is true, shouldn't the bar owner(s) have the sole decision as to whether he/she/they want to take that chance?
Where in the Constitution is the "opportunity" to attend a concert mentioned? Noone has the obligation to provide any type of entertainment to any other person. If you want to listen to a particular musician, buy his/her cd. If you want to see that same person, buy the DVD. You have no "right" to be able to see or hear any musician or any other entertainment for that matter.
Given that your claim is true, shouldn't the bar owner(s) have the sole decision as to whether he/she/they want to take that chance?
So then,,, a person's "right" to fill the air with smelly particulates that is shared with others trumps the "right" of others to enjoy the same sounds/sights? I never mentioned the Constitution - why you bringing that into the mix?
And yes it is true, if you look through these articles, and others, there is no 100% certainty that a establishment will survive - some have failed, some have prospered, others have stayed the same. However, the same can be said to an extent when tougher laws are passed regarding DUI's and the such, and/or when cops patrol around bars with more frequency.
At the end of the day, a smoke-free bar provides a venue where many that otherwise would not enter due to the odor a place to enjoy the atmosphere of a drinking establishment.
As to them being a private-business, yes I very much sympathize with that aspect of it. I am a conservative - and believe in the laissez-faire approach, for the most part. However, at times such as this, the 'rights' of the many trump that of the owner - an owner of a facility where the public is not just welcomed, but necessary for their economic survival. Over time, norms and customs change, and I believe that we are on the threshold of where we are seeing bars hurt, not just because of the smoking bans, but due to society acceptance to drinking and driving, and the such. And it is my hope that bars will continue to be in business, providing a place where people can enjoy the camaraderie of such environment, but where the only smell is due to yeast, grains, hot air, and vittles.
BTW, comparing such an establishment to a private house is a bit far of a stretch.
Last edited by ShadowCaver; 05-31-2007 at 07:54 AM..
A prime example of the mindset of the non smokers. Their rights trump the rights of the smokers. Just ask them.
Perhaps a compromise would be to have complete establishment advertising as smoking or non smoking and let the clients (who, after all, make the business) decide instead of trying to legislate the behavior of people (which never works).
You have the right to smoke! And your rights to smoke end where you “lack the ability to control†the smoke ~ and my rights begin with not having to breath your smoke when in a common public location.
Any place of business open to the public is a public place.
Who says that you have the right to smoke? Smoking endangers your life and all the people around you. What kind of right is that to be able to smoke in public?
How dare people drive cars and emit so much exhaust into the atmosphere...every single day.
Busses, trucks & Rv's should be illegal because they definitely pollute more than "their share!"
Let's start shutting companies down....because they emit pollution into our skies everyday.
We should restrict and limit new home & retail development....because contractors kick dust, dirt and pollen into the air when they build new projects!
Exhaust, dust, pollen, etc. (from many different sources) all goes into the air that we all share....Maybe it's time to put a stop to all of it.
Well, well, well, it's a deep subject but this is how I view it. I am a smoker and I enjoy it. Everyone talks about second hand smoke as being bad but come on, is it really as bad as all the people who go to the bars and restraunts and drink then get into their cars and crash into innocent people, killing or seriously hurting them? No it isn't as I think more deaths are caused by drunk drivers then by second hand smoke!!!!! Just my opinion!!!!
You two are truely misinformed. Firstly, I am not a smoker!! As a matter of fact I am allergic to cigarette smoke. Secondly, restaurants and bars are NOT "public" places, insinuating that the public owns these establishments. They are privately owned businesses, who INVITE the public to attend. You should have no more right to enter these establishments than I have the right to enter your house and dictate what lawful acts should occur there. If you don't like the smoke, the crowds, the food, the atmosphere, or any other aspect of these PRIVATELY-owned businesses, stay away, tell your friends and family, but otherwise leave these hard-working entrepenuers to run their businesses as they feel best.
They are still public places that are subject to laws and restrictions. Now if it's the privacy of your own home, that's different.
If we don't respect the private property rights of businesses, we're on our way to becoming a communist country...and this is spooky!!
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I never mentioned the Constitution - why you bringing that into the mix?
Smokinfg Ban
