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What about the Pledge of Alligiance: One Nation Under God
In court: We pledge on the bible
On our dollars: In God We Trust
The first amendment calls for a seperation of church and state; however, it doesnt call for the state to be godless or does it prevent the populace from identifying with a religion. And we do. The majority of citizens of the United States identify with Judaeo–Christian values.
Actually George Washington and John Adams said US is not a Christian Nation. See part of Treaty of Tripoli.
Why were the Barbary nations threatened? Why were they attacking our ships? What did they think we were? What conflict had self proclaimed "Christian Nations" had with them in the past? What was England at the time? Before the Henry VIII took control of the church and created the Church of England, what role did the Church play? What role was it after?
What was Jefferson attempting to explain to the Danbury Congregation? What were they in fear of? What incident in which state happened to which they were fearful of? In relation, what had the people of the colonies just escaped?
I could cite you hundreds of quotes by all of the founders, involved in the process and those close to which they speak consistently about Christianity and its importance to a moral and virtuous society, but it means nothing without the full historical context of the situation. Just like the Treaty of Tripoli, there is much more than meets the eye than simply looking at the document and attempting to find the entire meaning of the situation.
I have no need to "prove" anything to you, I am merely discussing the issue and have no interest in being caught up in a tit for tat with quotes on the issue being used to support an entire ideal. Historians have been doing it for years, I doubt we would resolve anything. /shrug
edit: as for the rest, you really need to clean up those tags as it is extremely hard to read your quotations and sources.
I have no need to "prove" anything to you, I am merely discussing the issue and have no interest in being caught up in a tit for tat with quotes on the issue being used to support an entire ideal.
You are not being asked to prove anything. I simply posted some historical facts, that's all. The OP was trying to take some words out of the context to make it sound like Obama had said US is not a Christian Nation, and I simply proved that Washington and Adams said the same thing and actually meant it.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 10-05-2009 at 05:34 PM..
What about the Pledge of Alligiance: One Nation Under God
In court: We pledge on the bible
On our dollars: In God We Trust
The first amendment calls for a seperation of church and state; however, it doesnt call for the state to be godless or does it prevent the populace from identifying with a religion. And we do. The majority of citizens of the United States identify with Judaeo–Christian values.
The original pledge of allegiance didn't contain the words "under God" until 1954.
You never had to swear in on the bible, it was common practice. For instance, Teddy Roosevelt didn't swear on the bible during the oath of office. It is not a requirement.
"In God we Trust" wasn't added until the Civil War. Because during wartime, people turn to religion for comfort, and this was never more prevalent than during our Civil War.
So no, the things you mentioned either weren't required, or weren't even there at the beginning of our country. So much for "founded as a Christian Nation"
[color="Red"]For some reason every one of our states mentions God in their preamble.
Oh, really? Even in your post I see this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by roysoldboy
Colorado 1876, Preamble: We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe. . . (No pecific reference to "God" here. Colorado always has been more independent minded)
Delaware 1897, Preamble: Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences. . . (How very subversive! By the dictates of their conscience; also no specific use of "God".)
Hawaii 1959, Preamble: We, the people of Hawaii, grateful for Divine Guidance. . .Establish this Constitution. (No specific reference to "God".)
Iowa 1857, Preamble: We, the People of the State of Iowa , grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings establish this Constitution. . . (Where's the reference to "God" here?)
Maine 1820, Preamble: We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity:.. And imploring His aid and direction. . . (No reference to "God" again.)
Massachusetts 1780, Preamble: We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe, In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction. . . (NO reference to "God")
Missouri 1845, Preamble: We, the people of Missouri, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness, Establish this Constitution. . .(No specific reference to "God")
New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience. . . (This is not the preamble)
Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I. Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences..(Not the preamble)
Tennessee 1796, Art. XI.III: That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience... (Not the preamble)
Vermont 1777, Preamble: Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man(No specific mention of "God")
Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI: Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other (Not the preamble, and no specific reference to God)
Washington 1889, Preamble: We the People of the State of Washington , grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution (No specific reference to "God")
West Virginia 1872, Preamble: Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God: (No specific reference to "God")
Quote:
After reviewing acknowledgments of God from all 50 state constitutions, one is faced with the prospect that maybe, the ACLU and the out-of-control federal courts are wrong! Please pass on this information.
Thanks to Martha Sears for sending me this!
Love,
Barbara
I don't see this in all 50 preambles. I am proud to have lived in two that do not use the word "God", Colorado and Delaware.
India is NOT a Hindu country. Nepal is the only Hindu country in the world. And you can get beef in India.
People write constitutions. So some influence of their religious beliefs is expected to show in their work. But then, the ideologies they subscribe to, is often shared by most religions anyway. Having said that, it still doesn't stop them from devising the constitution which is respectful of all believers, regardless of their religion, and of non-believers.That is where the idea of secularism comes. In India, the idea of secularism was instituted by the Muslim emperor Akbar in the 16th century (Din-e-Ilahi) and while it changed over the eons, the framers of the constitution made it a secular nation.
No they didn't read the Indian constitution and learn about it , it still has a large amount of religious influence even compared to the US
Like anywhere else, however, leave it to the right wing party to try and change that. India is a secular country, with no national religion, and respect for all believers/non-believers in the constitution. Do you have specific examples of these customs you speak of that people must follow?
I don't think so, Hinduism is still very dominant, yes you are right about right-wing politics, whether its people complaining that a person kisses and indian star and causing religious riots, in the US its nowhere as prevalent, one hears about it all the time.
Don't forget that a lot of indians live in highly religious and rural areas and many are still poor, in uttar pradesh and others they have many strict customs.
Also its a bit different, in the US while christians have customs its usually done inside a church and churches have less of the same kind of rituals in india, where you have rat temples, bathing by the ganges, throwing stones in river, prayers and rituals,etc
The scenery and the villages become interwined, and so its more high-profile, while you can get beef (there are muslims in india), and other things, one cannot doubt the huge impact of hinduism.
You never had to swear in on the bible, it was common practice. For instance, Teddy Roosevelt didn't swear on the bible during the oath of office. It is not a requirement.
"In God we Trust" wasn't added until the Civil War. Because during wartime, people turn to religion for comfort, and this was never more prevalent than during our Civil War.
So no, the things you mentioned either weren't required, or weren't even there at the beginning of our country. So much for "founded as a Christian Nation"
That doesn't change the fact that nobody is guaranteed freedom FROM religion in the constitution, only freedom OF religion to practice as you see fit.
You are not being asked to prove anything. I simply posted some historical facts, that's all. The OP was trying to take some words out of the context to make it sound like Obama had said US is not a Christian Nation, and I simply proved that Washington and Adams said the same thing and actually meant it.
Christian nation as in a nation held to religious doctrine to which its laws dictate adherence to such, then yes, not a "Christian Nation". As I said, there is a differing between the definition as such and this is exactly what I was talking about. There is a difference between a nation founded on Christian Tradition, influenced by it and guided by it and a nation to which mandates according to its doctrine. It is acceptable to say this is a Christian nation in that context and this is the very confusion that existed even back then concerning the difference between the understanding.
The Treaty of Tripoli is often used out of context only in its plain statement to support secular positions and while it is true that the government is secular in its powers, it is misleading in its use to claim that this country is not fostered by Christian Tradition.
Edit: Note that all of the questions I asked in that post leads to the full context of the issue. History can not be studied by simply looking at a document, quote, or simple statement and declaring intent. All of the factors of the time place those comments in their proper context to which give a more complete understanding of the issue.
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