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I can't say I puch much faith in your interpretation of whatever show your heard that was filtered by your bias. The very organization you use as a prop clearly states men default on these loans at greater rates. Not that I think this lends to any clues about men, but it certainly lends nada to your assertions about women.
Did you even read it? If so, provide the quoted text with page number. I read the 6-7 pages and didn't read what you're referrring to.
3rd paragraph bottom about mostly spending the money on HH stuff, dont have to go to page 7. its on the 1st page.
its not an assertion about women its assertion about financial responsibility. you know like why debtors anon is 85% women. (these are people getting well, the ones i worry about are the ones that dont 12 step) we need to see our part in the problem that is all i am asking. i am not saying its all about her, but i think the womens movement has clearly stated its all about him.
its not all about him friend-- its not-- if it were he would gladly fix it. women make mistakes they are not a mistake. but if we dont own our own stuff we get unresolved problems.
Nothing to be ashamed of - and trust me dear, it is still appreciated by millions of women.
Can you imagine the confusion some of the radicals must endure when they make their way to a restroom only to find the door labeled "ladies" Oh my!
There were many great points brought up in this thread about what feminism means (in reality, what it used to be), i.e. Equal pay, rights, owning property, divorce laws, the right to vote, etc. I personally believe every woman is thankful and forever grateful to the movement for these "equality" rights.
Unfortunately, the movement, somewhere in the past twenty to thirty years or so, took a drastic turn and was taken over by the radicals, even with their small numbers. Unfortunately just the terms "feminism" or "feminist" makes people shudder nowadays (men and women). The militant feminists have stomped, beaten down and tossed aside the "real" feminists ---they're still trying to get out from underneath the bus.
But then again, every group has been overshadowed by the radicals, so much that people cannot even take them seriously anymore - the Democratic Party, the Republican Party, Peta, etc. big sigh.
The poll should have had a few more options
Wishing everyone a wonderful Thanksgiving & Christmas with your families! I'm out for vacation And enjoy the thread, you couldn't pay for this type of entertainment.
In the 1700's, 1800's (and unfortunately NOW when you think we're all so enlightened) people who thought women should have the right to vote, own their own property, have the right to not be beaten by their husbands, ...
were considered EXTREME RADICALS!!!!!!!!
I so wish we could recind the rights of women who want to suck up all that feminists have gotten for them but still bad mouth them....
they don't deserve any rights...no voting, no equal opportunities, no fair divorce laws...nothing.
In the 1700's, 1800's (and unfortunately NOW when you think we're all so enlightened) people who thought women should have the right to vote, own their own properrty, have the right to not be beaten by their husbands, ...
were considered EXTREME RADICALS!!!!!!!!
I so wish we could recind the rights of women who want to suck up all that feminists have gotten for them but still bad mouth them....
they don't deserve any rights...no voting, no equal opportunities, no fair divorce laws...nothing.
Oh I could not agree more!!
You took the words out of my mouth.
ALL the women who voted against feminism should seriously reconsider what they think. To say that they don't deserve any rights...no voting, no equal opportunities, no fair divorce laws...nothing...is going easy on them.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,040,630 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl
Since you brought up the subject of young girls, I want to express my biggest pet peeves about female childhood.
1 - the clothing choices available is so trashy and sexual that I'm appalled.
2 - marketing to parents/kids in a sexual way. It destroys innocence way before it need be. As long as parental units accept this marketing, it will continue to erode childhood.
I'm all for equal rights. But when it goes as far as "Man pigs" or "We don't need you" and such, I'm starting to ponder. Can't really say feminists have the most amazing reputation in my mind right now. Perhaps that's what they call radical feminists? Well their still feminists.
I'm all for equal rights, but let's leave it at that. Feels like some women want to take one step further.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,040,630 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by diva360
Yeah, me. I am a youngish woman who self identifies as feminist, I wear makeup, adore fashion, wear heels, wear skirts and dresses a lot, and project the appearance I do because it pleases me. It may happen to please some men, but that is not why I look at clothes as the art form I think they are. The way I present myself is the expression of my artistic side. I am not religious at all.
Chielgirl knows that we basically agree, and this actually happened to me as a young girl in the work place, and it was scary. I was about fifteen, and there was this 20-something guy at work who often made remarks that I felt were inappropriate. This was in the mid-1980s when sexual harassment was starting to be a serious topic. The inappropriate comments usually fell along the lines of nice "Ts" and/or "As." Once, I was getting a soda and having a cigarette in the break room. Whille I was putting in the coins to get the soda, this jerk, my back to him, violently turned me around, backed me against the machine, and pressed his body against mine, using his legs to spread mine apart. It was obvious he was aroused. He grabbed my chin and tried to force me to kiss him. No one else was in the room. I literally pushed him hard, tried to run out of the room, and he caught my arm and pulled me back against his body. I jerked my arm free and ran up the stairs. Then I went to the ladies room, took a bunch of deep breaths, and tried to pull myself together. His spit was on my face, so I washed it off.
20 years or so later, I weigh 100 pounds soaking wet, and I weighed about that much then. I am lucky I got away. That was the prelude to a rape, and it very well may have been the case that in another situation I would not have been able to escape and he would have been able to finish what he set out to do. It didn't even occur to me to scream, though I would have, I hope, if I wouldn't have been able to get away.
Shortly after that, I found out that this same person had done similar things to other young girls. Since this creep told me at the time that he had no choice but to mess with me because he thought I was pretty, the fact that he had done it to other girls made me realize that he was lying. He was, in fact, a predator. That made me talk to my boss about it and initiate a formal complaint. She was sadly a woman, and she talked me out of it, telling me that it would "mess up his family" and that he was "really a nice guy." That case should have gone to HR, and I'm sorry I didn't push harder, but I was only fifteen.
I wrote about this in less detail earlier, but I felt it necessary to revisit this unpleasant memory here because it illustrates a couple of things. What chielgirl and LML talk about experiencing in the 60s and 70s are real experiences. The fact that they confronted these things means that me, a young girl in the 1980s who today many of you may well like or dislike, but who you have to admit in any case is pretty much nice and didn't deserve that, had to experience something that at least by then had a name. The fact that the thing that stupid, careless person did to me had a name means that at least I got a chance to try to make things right, even if it failed. I would hope that all of you would admit that you wouldn't want what happened to me to happen to your own beloved daughters, that you wouldn't want somebody manhandling her and grabbing her breasts and most private parts, just because he felt entitled to do so. You would especially not want that to happen when she was a mere and helpless girl.
I would also think that you would also hope that if, heaven forbid, that would happen, that if she complained she would be supported. You would hope, too, that she would be confident enough to complain in the first place, that she would have enough faith in the world to think she would be believed and loved and accepted. To me, LML and chielgirl and others like them paved the way so that when that awful thing happened to me, it wasn't quite as scary as it could have been--I can't imagine that happening to me and me not even having the label "sexual harassment" to attach to it. They invented a language that made my experience understandable, if not acceptable. I thank them, and I hope to help those younger than me in a similar way. Sorry this got long and thanks for reading, but this is what feminism means to me. It has nothing to do with male bashing, but rather to do with the world we want our girl children to grow up in. And I could care less whether women get married or bear children. Feminism has always been about expanding rather than contracting choices.
Thank you for sharing as I know it wasn't easy to talk about. I guess I did not realize that stuff like this was tolerated in the workplace. That I am grateful that feminist fought against it. This is the side of feminism that I fully support (along with other equal rights for women). I guess my impression of feminism has been marred by those who spout off anti-male, anti-marriage, anti-traditional sentiments, pro-abortion rhetoric that I haven't been able to appreciate the good side of the feminist movement. I am totally for equal rights in all areas and for women to have the freedom to choose the lifestyle that they wish (career woman, stay-at-home mother, etc). It just turns me off when I hear folks (not you guys) deriding women who are more traditional in their ways and beliefs. When I voted against feminism, I was voting against the extremist and not against equality for women.
Thank you for sharing as I know it wasn't easy to talk about. I guess I did not realize that stuff like this was tolerated in the workplace. That I am grateful that feminist fought against it. This is the side of feminism that I fully support (along with other equal rights for women). I guess my impression of feminism has been marred by those who spout off anti-male, anti-marriage, anti-traditional sentiments, pro-abortion rhetoric that I haven't been able to appreciate the good side of the feminist movement. I am totally for equal rights in all areas and for women to have the freedom to choose the lifestyle that they wish (career woman, stay-at-home mother, etc). It just turns me off when I hear folks (not you guys) deriding women who are more traditional in their ways and beliefs. When I voted against feminism, I was voting against the extremist and not against equality for women.
I think it is odd that you automatically thought it was radical feminism. There was nothing that mentioned it.
Anyone can be anti-male, anti-marriage, anti-traditional sentiments, pro abortion and they have a right to be. They do not have to be women or feminists. I do not believe in tradition and would never push it down anybodies throat. I am pro abortion and always will be. Anti male? It happens sometimes. Men. Sigh sigh! When will they learn?
Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions that you vote against the same women who fought for your rights.
I'm all for equal rights. But when it goes as far as "Man pigs" or "We don't need you" and such, I'm starting to ponder. Can't really say feminists have the most amazing reputation in my mind right now. Perhaps that's what they call radical feminists? Well their still feminists.
I'm all for equal rights, but let's leave it at that. Feels like some women want to take one step further.
"""Can't really say feminists have the most amazing reputation in my mind right now."""
Try education. I'm reading a good book on Elizabeth Cady Stanton by Ginzberg....she was truly amazing and so were her contemporaries.
Elizabeth was a spoiled rich girl who liked to flirt, loved men, had 8 kids, and was a radical feminist.
Many feminists were jailed, beaten, ridiculed, disowned and divorced(and in those days a man could divorce his wife, throw her out with NOTHING, not even her clothes because HE owned them, too!)
But don't let that affect you in any way...what others went through for your rights.
When I voted against feminism, I was voting against the extremist and not against equality for women.
That's why there should have been more options in the poll.
Hmmmm, since I haven't voted yet, I'll go ahead and vote, make that 35 a 36 now. But everyone will know I really mean the old feminism - not the extremist feminism
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Oh my!
big sigh. 
And enjoy the thread, you couldn't pay for this type of entertainment.
