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the UAW is actually suing GM right now over a VEBA payment dispute.
The United Auto Workers sued General Motors Co. on Tuesday, contending the Detroit automaker owes a union-run retiree health care fund $450 million.
The suit, filed in U.S. District Court in Detroit, contends that General Motors agreed in June 2007 to pay $450 million to settle a claim in Delphi Corp.'s bankruptcy.
Delphi refused to accept the claim and the company's best assets were purchased by a successor company, Delphi Holdings LLP, that exited bankruptcy on Oct. 6, 2007. Under the terms of the deal, the GM payment to the UAW was to be made after Delphi exited bankruptcy.
so who do you think winds up getting shafted either way?
From The Detroit News: UAW sues GM over VEBA payment dispute | detnews.com | The Detroit News (http://detnews.com/article/20100406/AUTO01/4060423/UAW-sues-GM-over-VEBA-payment-dispute#ixzz0lf2g3AS0 - broken link)
Though after the scr**ing the stockholders got when the government handed the company to the union, I don't know that I'll ever own another GM vehicle.
I'll never own one for similar reasons..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin
Those we disposed of during bankruptcy. That was kind of the main point of bankruptcy to begin with. All the pension obligations stayed with "old GM" (essentially all the assets and obligations GM didn't want) and "new" GM went forward. The retirees have much of their pensions insured by the Federal Pension Protection Act but the payouts are going to be much lower then promised. Essentially the total money in the pension fund will get divided up among the total number of claimants and that's how they'll decide what the pension fund can actually afford to pay but either way it is "old" GM's problem and has nothing to do with "new" GM.
Splitting a company into two, and giving good assets to company A, and bad liabilities to company B is illegal. Its a conversion of corporate assets. The judge let this go through because it was supported by the government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayland Woman
1) The union holds 17% of the stock....that's hardly "handing the company over to the union."
Stock holders under bankruptcy get ZERO.. ZIP.. NADDA.. The fact that the union held 17% of the company under bankruptcy means they get NOTHING!!.. By definition that is the definition of bankruptcy. Tell me why unions receive something as a stock holder but us other investors get ZERO!!
You know what...so would the rest of the shareholders in the company. Why did the union, who was a major contributor to the problems that GM was having, get a big, fat reward, while the rest of the shareholders got nothing? Cost me about $4k on the deal. My own fault though, should have bailed when the company was doing well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Stock holders under bankruptcy get ZERO.. ZIP.. NADDA.. The fact that the union held 17% of the company under bankruptcy means they get NOTHING!!.. By definition that is the definition of bankruptcy. Tell me why unions receive something as a stock holder but us other investors get ZERO!!
At the time of the bankruptcy GM owed the UAW quite a bid of money to pay off for the VEBA trust that they forced on the union in the middle of the last decade. VEBA transferred all health care costs to the union and the company was to pay the UAW three lump payments for it but only made one. Because they owed the union so much money they were a major bondholder in bankruptcy court and major bondholders outrank stockholders. They were NOT stockholders before the bankruptcy. They got the stock in the reorganization instead of the cash owed to them and if that stock doesn't go up VEBA is grossly underfunded. Why is that so hard to understand?
At the time of the bankruptcy GM owed the UAW quite a bid of money to pay off for the VEBA trust that they forced on the union in the middle of the last decade. VEBA transferred all health care costs to the union and the company was to pay the UAW three lump payments for it but only made one. Because they owed the union so much money they were a major bondholder in bankruptcy court and major bondholders outrank stockholders. They were NOT stockholders before the bankruptcy. They got the stock in the reorganization instead of the cash owed to them and if that stock doesn't go up VEBA is grossly underfunded. Why is that so hard to understand?
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clearly then, no matter what, the bailouts are not over by a long shot.
Originally Posted by workingclasshero
then you agree, we should have NOT bailed out that MONOPOLY
GM has about 18% of the market. How on earth do you figure that is a monopoly? Do you even know what the term monopoly means?
yes I do know what a monopoly, or a CONGLOMERATION is...the FACT is when chevy and gmc, and buick, and oldsmobile(rip2004), and pontiac, and hummer, and saturn are all part of THE SAME COMPANY...that is a MONOPOLY
then you agree, we should have NOT bailed out that MONOPOLY
we should have let "GM" go to bankrupsy, and split the CONGLOMORATION up,, chevy, buick, pontiac, hummer, saturn, opel (the europe gm), and GMCetc...all INDIVIDUAL COMPANIES just like it was 70 years ago
do you think we should just BAILOUT failing monoploies just because someone says they are 'to big to fail'......what about the THOUSANDS of small companies that have gone bankrupt in the last 20 years?????
or are you FOR DISCRIMINATION....because that is what that was we DISCRIMINATED against some companies to support others
I want to support companies that can stay afloat...I have always been a chevy man...but I will NEVER buy another GM product
dont you argee it was wrong to 'bailout' these auto and financial companies.....why bailout a FAILING company....inprove a SOLVENT company, and make it better....get rid of the TRASH....and that includes fannie,freddie, and aig
that chart shows looming future obligations in the continuing game of kick the can down the road. clearly they are going to need more bailouts or they are on their way to a chapter 7.
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