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That said, does the QB often play worse in playoff games? Does he miss targets he'd normally hit? Does he seem flustered by situations where he normally wouldn't?
Otherwise, maybe the coach isn't as good at game planning or mid-game adjustments as other playoff-level coaches. Maybe other players choke in big games, like receivers or defenses. Maybe the team's baseline is 10-7 and they're usually on the road in the playoffs. Maybe they're a passing team and don't do well in cold weather. Lots of stuff can be outside the QB.
That said, does the QB often play worse in playoff games? Does he miss targets he'd normally hit? Does he seem flustered by situations where he normally wouldn't?
Otherwise, maybe the coach isn't as good at game planning or mid-game adjustments as other playoff-level coaches. Maybe other players choke in big games, like receivers or defenses. Maybe the team's baseline is 10-7 and they're usually on the road in the playoffs. Maybe they're a passing team and don't do well in cold weather. Lots of stuff can be outside the QB.
Look at Marvin Lewis. Pretty dang good coach.. Who was canned because he couldn't win in the playoffs.
Or, Marty Schottenheimer. Same situation. Marty, I will say again.. best NFL HC to never win or even get to a Super Bowl.
QBs.. Everyone nowadays brings up Kirk Cousins.. But, if you dig deeper. What you say is absolutely the case. He hasn't played EXCEPTIONAL in playoff games, but he hasn't stunk up the joint, either. I think teams were averaging three turnovers per playoff game he started.. And he averaged less than one turnover in those games?
All that being said.. There are some players who can just step up and put the team on their shoulders.. Montana could do that. Brady.
Look at Marvin Lewis. Pretty dang good coach.. Who was canned because he couldn't win in the playoffs.
Or, Marty Schottenheimer. Same situation. Marty, I will say again.. best NFL HC to never win or even get to a Super Bowl.
QBs.. Everyone nowadays brings up Kirk Cousins.. But, if you dig deeper. What you say is absolutely the case. He hasn't played EXCEPTIONAL in playoff games, but he hasn't stunk up the joint, either. I think teams were averaging three turnovers per playoff game he started.. And he averaged less than one turnover in those games?
All that being said.. There are some players who can just step up and put the team on their shoulders.. Montana could do that. Brady.
Could we throw Mahomes in the lot? He's done pretty well with 2 SB wins. He's been a mixed bag this season but all it takes is to go on a run in the playoffs. Wasn't a big fan of Eli but he went on those 2 runs in the SB and now he might get into the HOF.
Look at Marvin Lewis. Pretty dang good coach.. Who was canned because he couldn't win in the playoffs.
Or, Marty Schottenheimer. Same situation. Marty, I will say again.. best NFL HC to never win or even get to a Super Bowl.
QBs.. Everyone nowadays brings up Kirk Cousins.. But, if you dig deeper. What you say is absolutely the case. He hasn't played EXCEPTIONAL in playoff games, but he hasn't stunk up the joint, either. I think teams were averaging three turnovers per playoff game he started.. And he averaged less than one turnover in those games?
All that being said.. There are some players who can just step up and put the team on their shoulders.. Montana could do that. Brady.
Lewis even had Carson Palmer, who was a decent QB. So you're right, it's on the rest of the team.
Could we throw Mahomes in the lot? He's done pretty well with 2 SB wins. He's been a mixed bag this season but all it takes is to go on a run in the playoffs. Wasn't a big fan of Eli but he went on those 2 runs in the SB and now he might get into the HOF.
If he keeps it up.. Certainly. but.. I still have to believe the law of averages will catch up with him. You ese him do things that you tell a rookie you never, ever do.. And he gets away with it. The law of averages there might be catching up a bit this year.
But yes.. End of the day, he does that stuff and it continues to work..
Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggermatt15
Lewis even had Carson Palmer, who was a decent QB. So you're right, it's on the rest of the team.
Marty had Montana for his 2 years in KC, and the early years of Drew Brees. So, he.. Had some decent QBs as well. Though, he had far more stinkers as well..
If he keeps it up.. Certainly. but.. I still have to believe the law of averages will catch up with him. You ese him do things that you tell a rookie you never, ever do.. And he gets away with it. The law of averages there might be catching up a bit this year.
But yes.. End of the day, he does that stuff and it continues to work..
Marty had Montana for his 2 years in KC, and the early years of Drew Brees. So, he.. Had some decent QBs as well. Though, he had far more stinkers as well..
I agree on your post about Marty above. He's the only coach in NFL history to win over 200 games and not be in the HOF. I think he should be in for sure.
Look at Marvin Lewis. Pretty dang good coach.. Who was canned because he couldn't win in the playoffs.
Or, Marty Schottenheimer. Same situation. Marty, I will say again.. best NFL HC to never win or even get to a Super Bowl.
QBs.. Everyone nowadays brings up Kirk Cousins.. But, if you dig deeper. What you say is absolutely the case. He hasn't played EXCEPTIONAL in playoff games, but he hasn't stunk up the joint, either. I think teams were averaging three turnovers per playoff game he started.. And he averaged less than one turnover in those games?
All that being said.. There are some players who can just step up and put the team on their shoulders.. Montana could do that. Brady.
That supporting cast makes a difference. Just ask John Elway.
Though his last two years he was a super bowl winner he still has those other three trouncings on his record. In his career, Elway was sacked 516 yards, at that time a record. Brett Favre passed him up several years later but Favre played several years more than Elway.
Denver had 4-5 time pro bowlers on defense; Dennis Smith, Steve Atwater, and Carl Mecklenberg. Rulon Jones was AFC Defensive Player of the year in 1987 IIRC. On offense he just had journeyman players and no all-pros or pro bowlers. His offensive line was below average and though running back Sammy Winder did have two 1000 yard rushing seasons he got to that level with sheer determination. Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson were ok receivers, just ok.
I agree on your post about Marty above. He's the only coach in NFL history to win over 200 games and not be in the HOF. I think he should be in for sure.
Marty will get in.. It's just a shame he didn't get in while he was alive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DOUBLE H
That supporting cast makes a difference. Just ask John Elway.
Though his last two years he was a super bowl winner he still has those other three trouncings on his record. In his career, Elway was sacked 516 yards, at that time a record. Brett Favre passed him up several years later but Favre played several years more than Elway.
Denver had 4-5 time pro bowlers on defense; Dennis Smith, Steve Atwater, and Carl Mecklenberg. Rulon Jones was AFC Defensive Player of the year in 1987 IIRC. On offense he just had journeyman players and no all-pros or pro bowlers. His offensive line was below average and though running back Sammy Winder did have two 1000 yard rushing seasons he got to that level with sheer determination. Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson were ok receivers, just ok.
Hmm.. Now.. I want to disagree with you.. But, that's been 40 years, so.. Need to look some of this up. I won't argue the last two years. But, the first three Super Bowl years.. that offense, for the AFC, was potent. Until they got to the Super Bowl.
The 86 season, when they played the Giants.. They performed about average throughout the playoffs and regular season. About 20 points per game. The 87 team, who lost to the Redskins.. They were much better offensively. Probably more a 30 point average, and then put up 10 in the Super Bowl. Then the 89 season.. Look.. No one was stopping the 49ers that year. And Denver didn't even try, it seems. But, the defense in most of those games was the problem. Not saying the offense really helped, but those three years, that defense gave up 39, 42 and 55 points in the Super Bowl.
Of course, remember, this is in the era of the NFC domination. Frankly, it was the Redskins, Giants and 49ers dominating..
Didn't Elway get hurt in one of the Super Bowls, or am I thinking of Jim Kelly? Or was it both of them?
Could we throw Mahomes in the lot? He's done pretty well with 2 SB wins. He's been a mixed bag this season but all it takes is to go on a run in the playoffs. Wasn't a big fan of Eli but he went on those 2 runs in the SB and now he might get into the HOF.
New England fan here, and although Manning was a good quarterback, I think it was the Giants defense that deserves the most credit for those two Super Bowl wins. Those were offense-driven teams for New England and they were running up gaudy numbers in the regular season, 30-40 points per game and Brady having 300, sometimes 400 yards passing - routinely. But when they met the Giants, the Patriots offense just looked *totally* different right from the first quarter - mainly due to a pass rush that the Pats o-line couldn't contain, and they didn't reach 20 points of output in either loss to the Giants. The scores were 17-14 (2008) and 21-17 (2012).
New England fan here, and although Manning was a good quarterback, I think it was the Giants defense that deserves the most credit for those two Super Bowl wins. Those were offense-driven teams for New England and they were running up gaudy numbers in the regular season, 30-40 points per game and Brady having 300, sometimes 400 yards passing - routinely. But when they met the Giants, the Patriots offense just looked *totally* different right from the first quarter - mainly due to a pass rush that the Pats o-line couldn't contain, and they didn't reach 20 points of output in either loss to the Giants. The scores were 17-14 (2008) and 21-17 (2012).
I can buy that. Eli gets a lot of glory because that is how the QB position is viewed. Same for Brady. But a lot of people forget or don't know that every Super Bowl Brady won, he had a top 10 defense behind him. It's just the nature of being the QB: you get all the credit and all the blame.
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