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Old 12-27-2018, 11:27 AM
 
1,196 posts, read 483,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
What? He finished out the season last year, and clinched home field advantage for the Eagles in the playoffs. Then he won all the playoff games including the Superbowl in a shoot out with the best quarterback in football at the time. Now, he takes a downtrodden, extremely injured team (on both sides of the ball), and wins two games against playoff caliber opponents.
In other words, he’s Jeff Hostetler or Jim Plunkett. Pardon me if I’n not duly impressed.

Look, there’s always a chance Foles could turn into the second coming of Steve Young. And if you’re willing to bet the rent on it happening, knock yourself out. I’ll pass, thanks.
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,218 posts, read 2,850,740 times
Reputation: 4516
Quote:
Originally Posted by bachslunch View Post
In other words, heís Jeff Hostetler or Jim Plunkett. Pardon me if Iín not duly impressed.

Look, thereís always a chance Foles could turn into the second coming of Steve Young. And if youíre willing to bet the rent on it happening, knock yourself out. Iíll pass, thanks.
Lol who are you betting Wentz is the second coming of?
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Old 12-27-2018, 01:54 PM
 
Location: 912 feet above sea level
2,270 posts, read 886,454 times
Reputation: 12457
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
I say keep Nick Foles, sign him to a long term deal, and trade Wentz to the most desperate team in need of a QB -- and pocket about 3 number one draft picks and maybe 3 number 2's for him. Dallas traded Hershel Walker, picked up about 9 draft picks, and went on to win 3 super bowls in the 90's. Follow that playbook.


There's not a GM in the league who would give up two #1s for Wentz, much less three... and you also think they'll throw a bunch of #2s thrown into the mix?

Why do homers always think the entire league is eagerly waiting to vastly overpay for some player the homer doesn't even want in his team anymore? I've been hearing this all my life. Even when I was a kid, there was always someone saying something like "We should solve our problems by trading our backup tight end and our long snapper plus a couple tackling dummies and a bag of used footballs for Walter Payton!". And even among grown-ups, there's always a rube or two that thinks exactly the same way - you know the type, because in your fantasy league they're always calling you and wanting to send you Brock Osweiller and you to send him Antonio Brown in return. Then he gets all huffy when you suggest that maybe that's not realistic.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:57 PM
 
Location: East Texas, with the Clan of the Cave Bear
2,125 posts, read 4,326,026 times
Reputation: 2467
All these comparisons of stats are interesting but let's look at the intangibles, namely how do you perform under pressure.

Since Wentz has no playoff games this will be apples and oranges. The one stat that translates into pressure would be 4th qtr comebacks/game winning drives. Wentz is 2 wins in 10 opportunities. https://www.phillyvoice.com/review-c...opportunities/
Another source gives him 4 game winning drives and 4 4th qtr comebacks : https://www.pro-football-reference.c...layer=WentCa00

So I can't really decipher which is truth about Wentz but he has the rep of not being able to comeback.

I couldn't find Foles ratio of wins vs opportunities but I did find that he had 9 4th quarter comebacks and 11 game winning drives (since 2012). https://www.pro-football-reference.c...layer=FoleNi00

But let's give this the eye test also. Foles rose to the top (like cream) on the biggest stage in the SB. Unbelievable stats. And he guided the team through multiple pressure filled games to get there. When you watch him you just have that gut feeling he'll get the job done. Example the Houston game just this past week. Again, as a Dallas fan I'll want Wentz before Foles as my foe.

Which brings up a really interesting question or two. Does Philly try to keep both? If not which? If they keep both it'll be for big money eventually and compromise talent at other positions. If it were me my gut tells me Foles but Wentz is the young gun with unlimited potential ... key word "potential".
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:17 PM
 
Location: USA
18,140 posts, read 8,981,960 times
Reputation: 13588
Quote:
Originally Posted by bachslunch View Post
In other words, heís Jeff Hostetler or Jim Plunkett. Pardon me if Iín not duly impressed.

Look, thereís always a chance Foles could turn into the second coming of Steve Young. And if youíre willing to bet the rent on it happening, knock yourself out. Iíll pass, thanks.

At this point I am willing to bet on Foles over a perpetually injured Carson Wentz. Foles did it last year, and he is doing it again this year, so last year was no fluke. He was also was successful under Chip Kelly. Yes, Foles can be inconsistent SOME times, but the last two seasons he has really shined. He is no Sanchez, nor Hostetler, nor Plunkett. Steve Young? Well, I'd say he is on track if given a chance to play.
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:18 PM
 
1,196 posts, read 483,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Lol who are you betting Wentz is the second coming of?
I donít bet on stuff like this. Wentz could put his health issues behind him ó or not. Thereís precedent for both possibilities. Unfortunately, in the NFL one never knows for sure.

Thereís always the possibility that neither QB is a good long term solution, in which case you keep one as a placeholder and try again. Thatís what more or less happened to Foles when he was with the Rams anyway.
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
12,645 posts, read 4,270,938 times
Reputation: 9956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulsker 1856 View Post

There's not a GM in the league who would give up two #1s for Wentz, much less three... and you also think they'll throw a bunch of #2s thrown into the mix?

Why do homers always think the entire league is eagerly waiting to vastly overpay for some player the homer doesn't even want in his team anymore? I've been hearing this all my life. Even when I was a kid, there was always someone saying something like "We should solve our problems by trading our backup tight end and our long snapper plus a couple tackling dummies and a bag of used footballs for Walter Payton!". And even among grown-ups, there's always a rube or two that thinks exactly the same way - you know the type, because in your fantasy league they're always calling you and wanting to send you Brock Osweiller and you to send him Antonio Brown in return. Then he gets all huffy when you suggest that maybe that's not realistic.
Further on in the thread I did dial back my prediction of 3 number 1's. After thinking about it, I am figuring maybe you can get 2 number ones, and some lower picks also.
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Old 12-27-2018, 05:30 PM
 
1,196 posts, read 483,796 times
Reputation: 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTex View Post
All these comparisons of stats are interesting but let's look at the intangibles, namely how do you perform under pressure.

Since Wentz has no playoff games this will be apples and oranges. The one stat that translates into pressure would be 4th qtr comebacks/game winning drives. Wentz is 2 wins in 10 opportunities. https://www.phillyvoice.com/review-c...opportunities/
Another source gives him 4 game winning drives and 4 4th qtr comebacks : https://www.pro-football-reference.c...layer=WentCa00

So I can't really decipher which is truth about Wentz but he has the rep of not being able to comeback.

I couldn't find Foles ratio of wins vs opportunities but I did find that he had 9 4th quarter comebacks and 11 game winning drives (since 2012). https://www.pro-football-reference.c...layer=FoleNi00

But let's give this the eye test also. Foles rose to the top (like cream) on the biggest stage in the SB. Unbelievable stats. And he guided the team through multiple pressure filled games to get there. When you watch him you just have that gut feeling he'll get the job done. Example the Houston game just this past week. Again, as a Dallas fan I'll want Wentz before Foles as my foe.

Which brings up a really interesting question or two. Does Philly try to keep both? If not which? If they keep both it'll be for big money eventually and compromise talent at other positions. If it were me my gut tells me Foles but Wentz is the young gun with unlimited potential ... key word "potential".
The problem with this kind of ďclutchĒ evaluation is sample size. As the examples of Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, and Trent Dilfer show, most QBs of a certain level of skill can catch fire at the right time ó and they donít necessarily have to be anywhere near elite level players. Conversely, you get QBs like Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, and Warren Moon who didnít do so when the chance came up. Given the choice, Iíd pick a QB from the second group if I had to choose one for my team. YMMV.
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Old 12-27-2018, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Virginia Beach
4,218 posts, read 2,850,740 times
Reputation: 4516
Quote:
Originally Posted by bachslunch View Post
I donít bet on stuff like this. Wentz could put his health issues behind him ó or not. Thereís precedent for both possibilities. Unfortunately, in the NFL one never knows for sure.

Thereís always the possibility that neither QB is a good long term solution, in which case you keep one as a placeholder and try again. Thatís what more or less happened to Foles when he was with the Rams anyway.
I agree with you here. This is more than health with Wentz, though. He's not winning more games than Foles. He's putting up greater numbers, but has he proven even when healthy he is the better quarterback? That's the real answer, you can give me all the stats in the world but if it doesn't translate to wins, we have an issue. He's winning and losing at the same rate as the backup, which would suggest he's putting up empty stats and doesn't have the "it" factor to take the team to greater heights...

This is a major problem...
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Old 12-28-2018, 04:35 AM
 
1,196 posts, read 483,796 times
Reputation: 1952
Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I agree with you here. This is more than health with Wentz, though. He's not winning more games than Foles. He's putting up greater numbers, but has he proven even when healthy he is the better quarterback? That's the real answer, you can give me all the stats in the world but if it doesn't translate to wins, we have an issue. He's winning and losing at the same rate as the backup, which would suggest he's putting up empty stats and doesn't have the "it" factor to take the team to greater heights...

This is a major problem...
Two thoughts:

-am thinking that ďquality will outĒ eventually if itís there. If youíve got superior stats and you stay healthy, youíre probably the better horse to bet on in the long run.

-teammate quality matters a whole lot in this sport, more than most. A guy like Archie Manning, good as he was, just didnít have a chance playing his career with the sad sack Saints. You have to have an o-line that can protect you, receivers who can get open and catch the ball, and enough of a running game to mix it up a little. And you have to at least have a defense that can keep the other team in check. So many working parts have to come together in the NFL.
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