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Great post! I'll add one more item to that. He led the Redskins to the NFL championship his first year in the league. That's not too shabby. Baugh was THE player in the NFL from the late 30's to around 1950 when his career was winding down. He also had connections with the American Football League as he was the head coach of the New York Titans (later the Jets) in their early years.
Great post! I'll add one more item to that. He led the Redskins to the NFL championship his first year in the league. That's not too shabby. Baugh was THE player in the NFL from the late 30's to around 1950 when his career was winding down. He also had connections with the American Football League as he was the head coach of the New York Titans (later the Jets) in their early years.
I didn't know that he became a head coach. Amazing career.
It's funny that every time I see one of these posts, P Manning and Brady get ignored.
also to the OP I like most of your points, but the Super Bowl does matter one is puzzling, to me Elway showed me a lot more when he took those sorry '80's teams to the SB only to get killed due to lack of overall talent.
every time I hear to be considered a great QB you have to win the SB, I think of Mark Rypen.
Despite all the claims about only wanting to play in a warm weather city, Elway took a real hard look at what the Baltimore had come. Bert Jones was the Colt's #1 draft choice in '73. He had tremendous potential and had a great throwing arm. Baltimore started improving. By 1976 they won their division and won it again the next year despite a suspect offensive line. The 1977 Colt/Raiders afc playoff game was one of the greatest playoff games over as it went to double overtime with Oakland winning. In 1978 the wheels fell off. Jones was out a number of games with a separated shoulder, tried to come back too early and separated it again, with Greg Landry finishing the season as the Colts qb.
During that time, there was trouble with management. GM Joe Thomas wanted Ted Marchibroda out as head coach. Marchibroda was a players coach who was a one time quarterback himself, as a back up qb for the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 50's. He was very popular with the players, especially with Jones. When Thomas fired Marchibroda, it started a player revolt and a few days later Thomas and Robert Irsay, the owner, backed off, and reinstated Marchibroda as head coach again. I could understand the player revolt as Thomas was going to appoint himself as head coach, and he had few friends on that team. In 2 years time they went fom first to worst in the division, for the second time in the decade.
Even with months of serious rehab was never the same, and by 1981, Jones demanded a trade as he was in the final year of his contract and the negotiations were ugly to say the least. I remember when the Colts played the Broncos Jones was politicking with the Denver media trying to get Dan Reeves attention that Jones would LOVE to be a Bronco. at the end of the season he told Irsay he was quitting and eventually was traded to the L.A Rams.
And retired after the 1982 season. It didn't take long to figure out he was gonna wind up like Bert Jones. Irsay bought the club in 1972. By 1982 seven coaches were hired and fired. Bert Jones filed grievance charges with Robert Irsay after he joined the Rams and lost the dispute. Any Baltimore Colt fan in that era knows those events are right. I don't want to get into Frank Kush or the Colts move because everyone , or most everyone knows about those events.
I'm back from a short vacation. Good to see the Favre saga continue. With the NFL season looming and preseason starting for most very shortly, the media loves to have something to swarm on.
To say that Elway didn't win jack until TD came along is further evidence that a quarterback's career is validated by Super Bowl wins. We all know this to be erroneous because that would have loudmouth Bradshaw as being one of the best; and we all know that just ain't true. No, Elway saw success prior to TD in about 1995 and he saw success without much of a running game whatsoever.
We Bronco fans learned that having a good defense may keep you from getting inhialated in a Super Bowl, but a good defense, coupled with a good running game, will flat-out win Super Bowls. The Broncos have had a marquee running back here and there, but for the most part in the post-Orange Crush era of 1977-Gradishar and Tom Jackson's retirement, it's been 2 yard run on 1st, 2 yard run on second, and pass on third-punt; aka, Sammy Winder.
Now, I don't think it was TD persay that got the Broncos running game going, but the blocking schemes and light weight and speed of the Broncos "silent" offensive line. We've seen success from a number of running backs around that era and since. Good running backs are a dime a dozen out in Greeley/Dove Valley. Let's talk about the Full Back Howard Griffith while we're at it.
Here's the bottom line; the Packers successfully shut down Elway's receivers and forced them to run the ball. Elway didn't seem to be having a great day and they pounded the ball with TD, migraine or not, a little Howard, and some Elway. I do believe he ran for a critical first down himself. Remember the helicopter incident? Of course you do. You know what I'm sayin'. Elway was a bad dude on the field.
The next Super Bowl, Dan Reeves tried to beat Elway and Elway scorched em'.
Joe Montana rarely got his jersey touched. Granted, he was a wicked competitor too. He probably could have handled a little more abuse, but he wouldn't have lasted as long and without that awesome organization from top to bottom, he would have not looked so graceful in his 4 trophies (4 for him, 1 for Steve??).
Cut-That-Meat is a great quarterback. His legacy is in the works right now. We'll be praising him soon enough. Tom Brady, I have nothing to say about him. I'm still ecstatic about that effort by Eli and company.
I think if the Broncos would not have won 2 superbowls as Elway retired, he would be ranked out of the top 5, plain and simple. How many people put Marino in the top 5? None really. Guy never had a running game to work with, and Miami's defense was never a top unit, otherwise, I believe Dan would be proudly wearing at least 1 superbowl ring.
Elway was great, but personally, I don't think he's the greatest ever. People want to say that simply because he was able to script a nice bowtie wrapped Hollywood ending. I personally don't care in what order success comes in, its the overall scheme.
As a Favre fan, I would like to say he's the greatest, but I won't because his decision making under pressure will never be like Montana's. I would put Joe Montana at the top of the list based on 2 things: 4 superbowl rings, and grace under pressure. I would also put Bart Starr ahead of Favre due to his 5 championships and almost perfect playoff record (9-1). Funny thing though, Starr had a higher interception rate than Favre, he just tended to make the bad throws at better times in the game when there was time left to make up for the mistake.
I have a 20-year grudge against John Elway that just won't go away.
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