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A very simplistic and ignorant POV, but this is a shining example of what the OP is talking about. There are a plethora of factors that might cause a person to fall into poverty or find themselves unable to escape poverty...factors aside from IQ or physical ability.
The government bases "poverty" on earned income alone. So you could have videogames, a car, two TVs, own a house, have a smartphone and as long as you make under the government dollar line, you are considered to be poor. We could "lift a lot of people out of poverty" just by redefining it to include assets.
Your goal should be to maximize your choices in life.
"to the best of your ability" ... yes
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Everytime you don't graduate high school, hang out with the wrong crowd, marry a loser, do drugs, have kids out of wedlock, choose to be a housewife, etc., you diminish your choices down the road that will keep you from being poor. That's not all of the poor but I'm willing to guestimate it's at least 80 percent.
Really? I don't think anyone should "guesstimate" the causes of being poor. How about a smartly-written, unbiased survey of 1000 "poor" people instead?
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Originally Posted by LauraC
The government bases "poverty" on earned income alone. So you could have videogames, a car, two TVs, own a house, have a smartphone and as long as you make under the government dollar line, you are considered to be poor. We could "lift a lot of people out of poverty" just by redefining it to include assets.
In third world countries, there are people who don't have food to eat or adequate shelter, and there are others who are "poor" by our standard but do not want for food or shelter. Perhaps the definition of poverty in this country should be redefined in that manner.
In third world countries, there are people who don't have food to eat or adequate shelter, and there are others who are "poor" by our standard but do not want for food or shelter. Perhaps the definition of poverty in this country should be redefined in that manner.
You're mixing apples with oranges. We cannot judge poverty in other countries by American standards because many countries do not have the freedoms available to them that we have; nor the resources. Crushing poverty that exists in Africa, India, SE Asia and other third world countries cannot be discussed in the same breath and *certainly* cannot be included in this thread.
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Really? I don't think anyone should "guesstimate" the causes of being poor. How about a smartly-written, unbiased survey of 1000 "poor" people instead?
It is very clear what causes poverty in this country and it has nothing to do with "circumstances that beyond the control" of the person. There have been people who have lost both of their parents at an early age and have become wealthy and successful. There have been people who were single mothers and have become wealthy and successful. There have been (many) people who do not have high school educations who have become wealthy and successful. There have been people who have had EVERY DISADVANTAGE known to man who have pulled themselves up by their boot straps, buckled down and done what they had to do to succeed. If a person is "poor" it is because they have a victim mentality *or* they refuse to accept the fact that your life is a direct result of your choices. (Notwithstanding the people who are mentally and *genuinely* physically disabled, and cannot work).
There is no big green boogie man preventing you from making something of yourself. It's all up to the individual and just how much ambition and desire they have to improve their personal circumstances.
We cannot judge poverty in other countries by American standards because many countries do not have the freedoms available to them that we have; nor the resources. Crushing poverty that exists in Africa, India, SE Asia and other third world countries cannot be discussed in the same breath and *certainly* cannot be included in this thread.
In my opinion, poverty is when you don't have enough food to eat or adequate shelter or medical care. That's the standard by which I believe everyone should be classified, whether in the U.S. or not.
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It is very clear what causes poverty in this country and it has nothing to do with "circumstances that beyond the control" of the person.
First, there's few people in this country who fall into the definition of poverty as I see it.
Second, for those who are in poverty, there are many, many different reasons and certainly some of them are beyond the control of the person who is suffering, for example disabled people, etc.
I think it has to do with being in control. We like to think we are in control of our lives, that if we just work hard enough and have high ambitions we will be ok. This is the mantra we tell ourselves. It is not all bad because it gives us something to believe in. But life is not that simple. You lose your job or you have a major medical issue and all of a sudden you find yourself in poverty. I think people like to believe that won't happen to them so they try to tell themselves that poor people just didn't try hard enough or make smart enough decisions.
You lose your job or you have a major medical issue and all of a sudden you find yourself in poverty. I think people like to believe that won't happen to them so they try to tell themselves that poor people just didn't try hard enough or make smart enough decisions.
There certainly are many people who have suffered financial setback such as bankruptcy or losing a home because of a major medical issue and ensuing loss of income, but that doesn't convince me that either that is the case with most poor people or that I'm using any opinion as a mental security blanket to avoid worrying about it happening to me.
I think LauraC nailed it, life is about choices and some people start out life with more choices open to them than others. I suspect (and cannot prove) the ability to put off short term satisfaction to choose a path that has longer term potential for reward is a defining characteristic in many poor people, and I further suspect is often a trait learned from others in their environment.
People psychologically distance themselves from the poor, for fear of it "catching." If you blame someone for their problem, it gives you a sense of control, that it could never happen to you. But, anything in life is possible for any of us.
I think it has to do with being in control. We like to think we are in control of our lives, that if we just work hard enough and have high ambitions we will be ok. This is the mantra we tell ourselves. It is not all bad because it gives us something to believe in. But life is not that simple. You lose your job or you have a major medical issue and all of a sudden you find yourself in poverty. I think people like to believe that won't happen to them so they try to tell themselves that poor people just didn't try hard enough or make smart enough decisions.
Planning for contingencies like job loss and medical issues is definitely within control though. That's why there are such things as emergency funds, insurance and 401K. People who refuse to take into account that there are certain things that could happen then act as though that all the ills that are associated with it are unforseeable acts of nature like a lighting strike all the while continue to live the high life and dip their hands into the emergency funds of those of us who carefully plan for it do not get my respect at all. I might help them with my money but they're definitely not entitled to it.
Because 95% of the time, poor people are poor because they are either lazy or made many bad life decisions (such as dropping out of high school, getting hooked on drugs, hanging out with gang members, getting pregnant as a teen, etc). Rarely are people poor because of circumstances totally outside of their control.
Of course, that 95% figure does not include poor people who are poor because they are disabled, have serious mental issues, or have some sort of brain damage resulting in a very low IQ.
The attitude has its roots in Puritan culture. It was believed that God rewarded those who worked hard, so financial success was equated with Godliness. If you were poor, and weren't able to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, it was a sign that you were out of favor with God, or didn't live by "Christian" values, so you were a Bad Person, and you were lazy. Puritanism is alive and well in America, and takes many guises.
The prosperity gospel. ring a bell?
Interesting thing is that if you read the Bible, you will find that many of God's followers were poor till the end of their lives. Get this, one person who used to be rich and well liked became poor as soon as he began following Christ. He also lived a life of being jailed and imprisoned in the name of Christ. Then he died as a poor man.
A lot of people blame the poor for being poor for many reasons. It is true that some people are poor just because of their own irresponsibility. (I myself want to believe that I am poor because I just didn't try hard enough.) However, the truth is that a lot of aspects of life are beyond your control.
Some people can wind up poor due to being slandered and blackballed. Gossip can really destroy lives.
I believe that each poor person is an individual case...
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