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Frankly, Lodestar, the speech police thing in America has utterly worn out its welcome. Actually, to millions of people, it never has been welcome. And the intricate parsing of words is just immature and an attempt to control.
If somebody wants to refer to a relevant person in their life as toxic (because they are!) that should be accepted by anybody. There are deeply sick people in this world who have horrendous impact on the lives of others; and refuse to stop their atrocious behavior. They deserve much worse than merely being labeled what they are.
Honestly? I would get yourself into therapy and maybe discuss your parents' behaviors with the therapist. They can't make a diagnosis, but they can listen to the behaviors you describe and offer you solutions for dealing with them. Or insights as to how this may have affected you in other aspects of your life.
My therapist did NOT diagnose my mother. She recommended a book about boundary setting that was about dealing with people with borderline personality disorder. I had figured my mother was a garden-variety narcissist, but reading that book not only gave me solutions and the starting point for discussions with my therapist, but it also clued me in on what was likely really going on.
I don't know how old you are (you may have mentioned elsewhere), but I was 40 when I started addressing this. I did it for my own happiness, but if you have kids or a significant other, you really owe it to them as well as yourself to unpack this stuff and how it's tainted your view of what is normal. And trust me, it has - there's no way it couldn't.
Did the boundary-setting work? I've seen narcissists regard attempts to set boundaries as challenges to overcome. It's a game to them.
It’s incredible to me how people with this problem have no insight (or don’t care?). For example, my mother has alienated/lost contact with scores of relatives including her brother and his family, now me and my family and others. Yet there is no awareness that anything is wrong? And my father plays along like her puppet?!
What a truly cruel condition if you think about it, especially for those around the narcissistic. We’re the ones seeing therapists while they think all is well. Or perhaps it’s ok with the narcissists because they don’t need/want relationships for the same reasons most healthy people do?
Almost seems like control is the main motivator for my mother. Either she does things her way and has full control or she gets enraged, it doesn’t count, and she’d rather discard.
Control is a big part of it. Some narcissists manage to hide their true nature, to preserve a good image with people they value; they're manipulative. Others seem to behave compulsively to the point that they'r'e oblivious to the fact that they drive everyone away.
Do you call people without papers "illegals?" Or babies born to single mothers "bastards?"
People aren't toxic. They are sick human beings with toxic behavior.
The fad part of it I was referring to is seeing it everywhere and the tone of dismissal implied in calling a human toxic. It's certainly not a therapeutic approach.
In my opinion anyone who can think of someone as a toxic person should avoid anything to do with the psychology field. How could they assist anyone they fear?
How about instead a therapist who can say they don't have the skills to work with Narcissistic patients and refers them to someone else?
It can be VERY therapeutic, for the people who were tormented by a narcissistic family member, and grew up with low self-esteem as a result, without knowing why. Or children of such parents, who struggle to understand behavior that makes no sense, or that's hostile for no reason. When someone has grown up not being able to trust their own feelings, due to chronic gaslighting by a parent, it's very therapeutic for a therapist to explain, that the reason for their confusion is parental toxic, abnormal behavior.
Did the boundary-setting work? I've seen narcissists regard attempts to set boundaries as challenges to overcome. It's a game to them.
To a certain extent it did, but it was exhausting and just nerve-wracking for me to have to maintain those boundaries because she was still capable of the occasional sneak attack. So I just never felt confident or comfortable in her presence.
I googled "is narcissism a mental illness" and the top two results were Wikipedia and the Mayo Clinic; since it's referred to as a disorder, my sense is that it is a mental illness, though I'm no expert at interpreting this language. See: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...s/syc-20366662
My mother was fearful of psychology and mental health professionals. Not sure why. If she was narcissistic, which I suspect, her life history would support that development. But she was never formally diagnosed and I did see therapists in the past and wasn't, either. But I distanced myself from her early on. Hard to tell how you should handle your relationship with your mom but a good cognitive therapist could help you after being informed of the bigger picture.
Cognitive ( "talk") therapy is helpful. Most--or at least the ones I've attended--universities offer a set number of visits each semester and I have found that helpful and taken advantage of it since it's free. Most communities have free or sliding scale services available.
Last edited by KaraZetterberg153; 04-09-2018 at 06:50 AM..
Frankly, Lodestar, the speech police thing in America has utterly worn out its welcome. Actually, to millions of people, it never has been welcome. And the intricate parsing of words is just immature and an attempt to control.
If somebody wants to refer to a relevant person in their life as toxic (because they are!) that should be accepted by anybody. There are deeply sick people in this world who have horrendous impact on the lives of others; and refuse to stop their atrocious behavior. They deserve much worse than merely being labeled what they are.
It can be VERY therapeutic, for the people who were tormented by a narcissistic family member, and grew up with low self-esteem as a result, without knowing why. Or children of such parents, who struggle to understand behavior that makes no sense, or that's hostile for no reason. When someone has grown up not being able to trust their own feelings, due to chronic gaslighting by a parent, it's very therapeutic for a therapist to explain, that the reason for their confusion is parental toxic, abnormal behavior.
I am appalled by my own stupidity or lack of insight in this area. Growing up with low self-esteem is, as Ruth mentions, the primary basis of all or most of my life challenges. When I reflect on my nearly 70 years of life, this is what I see at every turn.
Really makes me want to go out there and get people into therapy at an early age so they can have happier and more successful lives rather than enduring the burden of thinking they're useless pieces of $hit their whole lives.
Do you call people without papers "illegals?" Or babies born to single mothers "bastards?"
No . And I don't see how that even relates to the topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar
People aren't toxic. They are sick human beings with toxic behavior.
The fad part of it I was referring to is seeing it everywhere...
Then take it up in P&OC.
There are people, as evidenced in this thread, who have relationships that are toxic. Your semantics argument is just taking it off track.
The guy is trying. That's all anyone can ask. The fact that you don't like the way he worded his attempt is irrelevant.
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. And I don't see how that even relates to the topic.
