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In my thirties I went into an unused office, swore and threw my clipboard across the room loud enough for the whole floor to hear me. It didn't take long to see the occupational disadvantages of that behavior. Or the sense of helplessness.
It's a good thing to learn that you don't have to act out in public every feeling you are having. Gives you a sense of mastery over yourself and keeps your head clear for immediate issues. But it does take practice. We all know expression of feelings can be postponed and sometimes when we do that we find they are more manageable. The trick is to note them and be sure to deal some time later or they pile up. That's when you get that spillage.
Maybe I'm missing your point, but isn't this the purpose of the (so-called and actually non-existent) cry rooms? A place to go and compose and relax yourself in private?
I wonder if people would have a different reaction if they were called "meditation rooms" (as at my daughter's office) or "relaxation rooms" (as at my most recent workplace.)
We probably were raised in different environs. On the path I walked over my 66 years, which included a fairly even blend of terrains from rural to urban, economies from hand to mouth to investment porfolios, jobs to careers ... a grown child beyond the age of 10 carrying a stuffed toy would be viewed as a bait.
I remember being bait.......the lamb out for others to try to bash while my lions waited to pounce......of course, by then, I was wolf in sheep's clothing.
Anyhow, about cuddling children for many, many years......is that the same for those who say we shouldn't start giving homework at early age? From my standpoint, if you don't learn to do homework at an early age, when do you learn it? From my standpoint as a LEO and Spook, learning something off the job is necessary to do the job, such as developing a background for it. From my standpoint, it is something to be proud of that I am the kind who superiors will say, "Heck, if we find you are lacking, we will just give you the text book and in a week, you will be up on the subject." because I have an engineering degree from TAMU, because my world has been the one to absorb massive amounts of information quickly.
Are the cuddled children a far greater liability than just college cry rooms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zentropa
Maybe I'm missing your point, but isn't this the purpose of the (so-called and actually non-existent) cry rooms? A place to go and compose and relax yourself in private?
I wonder if people would have a different reaction if they were called "meditation rooms" (as at my daughter's office) or "relaxation rooms" (as at my most recent workplace.)
Difficult to say. In acting, I look for the "Sanctuary Point" in my character so if I lose focus, I can retreat to that aspect about her until I am her again. This concept was developed for a character who had been thru a nerve gas attack. When her (mine) emotions slipped, that was a working excuse I could use.
In a way, it is like the GEV defence. In Metegaming (Steve Jackson Games) game "GEV", there is a clause in the story that in a point blank attack against a GEV (hovercraft), the GEV may still attack. That is, you may stun the crew but the automatics will still attack anything next to it. I use this GEV defence when I m dancing, a stability state to get to if, say, I forget what the next step is until I remember.
THE CATCH IS, when do we learn to have the necessary mental discipline, the muscle memory to be able to do this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar
This is all my personal values system but I was trying to remember how I handled it as a young person at college or some of my first jobs when I felt like breaking into tears.
In college we had friends, roommates, floor advisors, counselors and deans to help us with personal problems and emotional issues related to school life. There was always the final resort of calling old high school chums or one of our parents.
Errrrr, no, for I was the target.
Survival against those who would hurt me is a, in the end, a very satisfying feeling. I remember one upper classman who put me through a particular hell one morning and a semester or year later, said he was surprised to still see me there.
I like that that I surprise people by being where I am not expected to be. I like being Audacious.
Quote:
.........Just like praying in public, visiting in the cry room feels a little cringy to me, a little too dramatic. But I suppose if I were of that generation I would have checked it out. When you're that age you don't always know much about how to handle feelings. People look for answers. Doing it in public at least carries the hope you'll obligate someone else to help with them.
...........
Well, two things. First of all, visiting a cry room when I was young would be just as impossible as keeping a diary when I was in the service. Long story short, people would have used such to target me.
Secondly, when I eat Chinese (the only restaurant I go to these days), I do say grace. No one has approached me on that (and that could just as well be my prowess sends out warn off signals) but if they did, I might say I am that religious..................
................................or say I am meditating before I eat of the green horseradish.
Last edited by TamaraSavannah; 09-26-2022 at 09:46 AM..
I think my reaction was, of course, personal to my history and my experiences. Being raised by parents who heard "children should be seen and not heard," "keep a stiff upper lip," "spare the rod and spoil the child" I heard "you're entitled to speak your opinion but ou're still wrong." Yes, even my father who was a trained therapist (1950's, not surprising). .
These are all vestiges of the Victorian Era. When Dr. Spock, a pediatrician also trained in psychoanalysis, published his book on baby and child care in the 40's through the 60's, it caused a revolution, because it based baby care on the infant's needs (a radical idea at the time) rather than on rigid adult rules. Infants in the Victorian (and post-Victorian) "dark ages" were expected to conform to adult mealtime schedules; to give in to a baby's crying out of hunger was considered to be "spoiling" the child. As a result of many parents following the new guidelines to feed and care for infants and toddlers according to their needs, Dr. Spock was later blamed for the Vietnam War protests and other unrest of the 60's, accusing him of fostering a generation of spoiled, demanding young adults.
The Victorian beliefs and practices lasted through the 60's and possibly longer in conservative households, but the youth rebellions of the 60's resulted in an eventual loosening up of attitudes toward many things, including an abandonment of Victorian sexual mores.
These are all vestiges of the Victorian Era. When Dr. Spock, a pediatrician also trained in psychoanalysis, published his book on baby and child care in the 40's through the 60's, it caused a revolution, because it based baby care on the infant's needs (a radical idea at the time) rather than on rigid adult rules. Infants in the Victorian (and post-Victorian) "dark ages" were expected to conform to adult mealtime schedules; to give in to a baby's crying out of hunger was considered to be "spoiling" the child. As a result of many parents following the new guidelines to feed and care for infants and toddlers according to their needs, Dr. Spock was later blamed for the Vietnam War protests and other unrest of the 60's, accusing him of fostering a generation of spoiled, demanding young adults.
The Victorian beliefs and practices lasted through the 60's and possibly longer in conservative households, but the youth rebellions of the 60's resulted in an eventual loosening up of attitudes toward many things, including an abandonment of Victorian sexual mores.
Was it misplaced with Dr. Spock? I remember his platform running for President in 1972. He didn't want to bring home just the troops from Viet Nam but all the US Troops in the world.
Well, I think there are some, like those I've seen, who have a fragile appearance and demeanor. That's the first thing I thought when I encountered these young women. I would imagine they'd have very slow reflexes to any kind of sudden surprise or danger.
I think there's no doubt that these are layered defenses. Even the role play "littles" might have layered defenses that lead to their interest in being a "little."
But at the same time though... Just how prepared to react to sudden surprise and danger does one really need to be, walking around Target or Walmart with a partner? I mean. I'm not going to the store with a gun on my hip, either literally or metaphorically. In fact, there was a point that I was dating a military vet, and we were walking downtown and there was a small sound from an alley over across the street (I'm 100% sure it was an animal, or the wind, it really wasn't anything) and the dude very overtly moved himself between me and the noise and acted like he was READY for PERIL... And I realized that this was part of why I did not want to be with partners who had a history of these kinds of dangerous jobs anymore, I don't WANT to walk around in the world with someone who acts like violence could happen at any second.
Even if yeah, the world does hold some danger, and no, I don't want to be oblivious to my surroundings, I am situationally aware... But there is a line someplace where that becomes hypervigilance, and as a person who was trying really hard to heal from the traumas in my first marriage and who was like...learning how to feel safe... That was not helping. I was sick to death of letting stress eat me alive.
And so that goes to this question of whether we are coddling kids, but like, what's the alternative? Why do humans so often pendulum back and forth in the extremes, I wonder?
Like I can point to so many ways in which my upbringing was just awful. I think that most people see these terrible mistakes that their own parents made in raising them. So we try really hard not to mess up in the ways we think our own parents did, right? How many parents who spank kids will say, "at least I don't use a belt or a fist like my Dad did" (I have heard this)... And the whole "participation trophies" thing, I get SO DAMN MAD when people point at the kids and castigate them for being soft due to "participation trophies".....because even to whatever extent that is a real thing at all, how was it their fault?? They, as CHILDREN, were not demanding any such nonsense. If it was anybody, it was the parents acting like little Johnny is their perfect golden boy who can do no wrong, getting in fights at their kids softball games, and demanding this treatment of their children. Going all "mama bear" on anyone who dared impose a consequence for any of their kids' behaviors! No kid ever has said that red pen hurt their feelings. It would be a therapist or a parent coming up with that, or some goofy person on the internet.
Like how can older people criticize younger ones for how they were raised when they're the ones who did the raising, will somebody explain this to me? Seriously?
We all just do the best we can with what we've got. That's all there is to it. I know that as a young parent raising a couple of Gen Z kids who are now struggling with young adulthood, I often wonder if I sheltered them too much. They don't seem ready to handle the realities of life. I worry my butt off, nonstop. But what's the alternative? I felt a ton of pressure as a Mom and I tried to give them a good childhood. I did not think it was appropriate to raise them in a home full of anger, abuse, or neglect, which I feel is what I grew up with. Yeah, I was part of a generation (young Gen X) where nobody really cared about my precious fee-fees. And I am, now, at this point, a highly functional adult and my life is pretty good...
BUT.
When I was their ages? Oh hell no it wasn't, I wasn't. I was a mess, my choices were bad ones. I may not have been toting around a stuffed animal or looking for a cry room, but I was having kids with Mr. Red Flags himself, so I don't exactly compare stunningly to my own kids if we're gonna apples-to-apples this.
So like maybe, just maybe, we could recognize that I dunno, EVERY generation probably looked at the young adults emerging into the world and wondered how on earth they were gonna survive...and yet...somehow, they manage. And the world changes because they become the ones running it in time, and they have their own kids, try not to hand down generational curses but probably manage to create new ones, THEIR kids end up being "soft" or "weird" or whatever in comparison and THEY end up in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, shaking their heads and wondering if the kids are gonna be OK.
But at the same time though... Just how prepared to react to sudden surprise and danger does one really need to be, walking around Target or Walmart with a partner? I mean. I'm not going to the store with a gun on my hip, either literally or metaphorically. In fact, there was a point that I was dating a military vet, and we were walking downtown and there was a small sound from an alley over across the street (I'm 100% sure it was an animal, or the wind, it really wasn't anything) and the dude very overtly moved himself between me and the noise and acted like he was READY for PERIL... And I realized that this was part of why I did not want to be with partners who had a history of these kinds of dangerous jobs anymore, I don't WANT to walk around in the world with someone who acts like violence could happen at any second.
Even if yeah, the world does hold some danger, and no, I don't want to be oblivious to my surroundings, I am situationally aware... But there is a line someplace where that becomes hypervigilance, and as a person who was trying really hard to heal from the traumas in my first marriage and who was like...learning how to feel safe... That was not helping. I was sick to death of letting stress eat me alive.
..........
Welcome to the Full Combat Suite where everything about me works to keeping me safe, be it offensive, defencive, support, sensory, camouflage and evasion (or the opposite, going high visibility), etc.. You talk of hypervigilance and to me, that is listening to instinct, understanding that just because I can't put it down to words, that something, such as the limbic system, may be detecting an item of concern.
I mentioned earlier prowess. I rather like that I have it (bummer on relationships, though). Like the song goes, "Those who feel me near, close their blinds and change their minds."........and they do, I have seen people turn and go the opposite direction in a parking lot.
I don't care what they carry or what they wear or what they pierce. Lots of people do weird stuff. At least stuffed animals are amusing weird stuff. But cry rooms????
These people are supposed to be adults, not coddled 5 year olds.
It's just a private place to destress during finals week:
The university's library has a "Cry Closet" now available for "stressed out students," a statement on the closet's door reads. "The space is meant to provide a place for students studying for finals to take a short 10-minute break."
Maybe I'm missing your point, but isn't this the purpose of the (so-called and actually non-existent) cry rooms? A place to go and compose and relax yourself in private?
I wonder if people would have a different reaction if they were called "meditation rooms" (as at my daughter's office) or "relaxation rooms" (as at my most recent workplace.)
That's what I'm wondering, too. A lot of organizations are recognizing that mental health is part of health, and provide spaces in the workplace to take a few minutes to decompress. If you google "cry room" there was one article in April of 2018 about the University of Utah that was picked up by a bunch of sources--it's not really as widespread as the clickbait would have you believe.
People are constantly talking about raising the gun age. One cannot rent a car till they are 25.
While those points can be argued back and forth to right or wrong, the point is that if one is held responsible as an adult at 18, if they can be sent to war or executed for a crime, then there should be no restrictions for other things (not mentioned because this is the psychology and not the P &OC forum), because society believes they are not adult enough.
One is either an adult or they are not.......and we wonder why we have this issue of people being over 18 and yet confused that they are not adult. Is it any wonder in this society?
IMHO.
Not to turn the thread into politics, but just to clarify discussion isn't for any guns but AR-15's. The age in most states for handguns is already 21. The age to own an AR-15 is 18, because they are considered rifles, but they can do much more damage than handguns so it doesn't really make sense to have the age to acquire one be 3 years lower than the age to purchase a handgun.
The car rental thing is done by those businesses, it's not a government rule. It's because the accident rate for people younger than 25 is much higher than it is for 25 and older.
I do think if 18 year olds can go to war, they should be able to drink, though.
But these rules have been in place for generations now. The drinking age in NJ was raised to 21 when I was 17, and I'm 60 now.
I think it's natural and normal for young adults to wade back and forth between childhood and adulthood, they are on the cusp of each at 18. I don't think they are confused anymore than I was at that age. They are transitioning to adulthood, that is scary, so they take half a step back at times by finding comfort in a stuffed animal, so what?
But at the same time though... Just how prepared to react to sudden surprise and danger does one really need to be, walking around Target or Walmart with a partner? I mean. I'm not going to the store with a gun on my hip, either literally or metaphorically. In fact, there was a point that I was dating a military vet, and we were walking downtown and there was a small sound from an alley over across the street (I'm 100% sure it was an animal, or the wind, it really wasn't anything) and the dude very overtly moved himself between me and the noise and acted like he was READY for PERIL... And I realized that this was part of why I did not want to be with partners who had a history of these kinds of dangerous jobs anymore, I don't WANT to walk around in the world with someone who acts like violence could happen at any second.
Even if yeah, the world does hold some danger, and no, I don't want to be oblivious to my surroundings, I am situationally aware... But there is a line someplace where that becomes hypervigilance, and as a person who was trying really hard to heal from the traumas in my first marriage and who was like...learning how to feel safe... That was not helping. I was sick to death of letting stress eat me alive.
And so that goes to this question of whether we are coddling kids, but like, what's the alternative? Why do humans so often pendulum back and forth in the extremes, I wonder?
Like I can point to so many ways in which my upbringing was just awful. I think that most people see these terrible mistakes that their own parents made in raising them. So we try really hard not to mess up in the ways we think our own parents did, right? How many parents who spank kids will say, "at least I don't use a belt or a fist like my Dad did" (I have heard this)... And the whole "participation trophies" thing, I get SO DAMN MAD when people point at the kids and castigate them for being soft due to "participation trophies".....because even to whatever extent that is a real thing at all, how was it their fault?? They, as CHILDREN, were not demanding any such nonsense. If it was anybody, it was the parents acting like little Johnny is their perfect golden boy who can do no wrong, getting in fights at their kids softball games, and demanding this treatment of their children. Going all "mama bear" on anyone who dared impose a consequence for any of their kids' behaviors! No kid ever has said that red pen hurt their feelings. It would be a therapist or a parent coming up with that, or some goofy person on the internet.
Like how can older people criticize younger ones for how they were raised when they're the ones who did the raising, will somebody explain this to me? Seriously?
We all just do the best we can with what we've got. That's all there is to it. I know that as a young parent raising a couple of Gen Z kids who are now struggling with young adulthood, I often wonder if I sheltered them too much. They don't seem ready to handle the realities of life. I worry my butt off, nonstop. But what's the alternative? I felt a ton of pressure as a Mom and I tried to give them a good childhood. I did not think it was appropriate to raise them in a home full of anger, abuse, or neglect, which I feel is what I grew up with. Yeah, I was part of a generation (young Gen X) where nobody really cared about my precious fee-fees. And I am, now, at this point, a highly functional adult and my life is pretty good...
BUT.
When I was their ages? Oh hell no it wasn't, I wasn't. I was a mess, my choices were bad ones. I may not have been toting around a stuffed animal or looking for a cry room, but I was having kids with Mr. Red Flags himself, so I don't exactly compare stunningly to my own kids if we're gonna apples-to-apples this.
So like maybe, just maybe, we could recognize that I dunno, EVERY generation probably looked at the young adults emerging into the world and wondered how on earth they were gonna survive...and yet...somehow, they manage. And the world changes because they become the ones running it in time, and they have their own kids, try not to hand down generational curses but probably manage to create new ones, THEIR kids end up being "soft" or "weird" or whatever in comparison and THEY end up in their 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, shaking their heads and wondering if the kids are gonna be OK.
Can't rep you again
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