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That is an astute observation, NYer. The unfair labeling of Christians as not being "progressive" or open minded is sad. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Disagreeing with something someone does is not the same thing as hating them.
Conservative Christians can disagree with someone's choice while caring about them as a human being - and the vast majority do. Mpg's point is a good one: You can accept a person and care about them without accepting what they do.
I've lived a lot of places and NuRider, you will find the majority in this area would not agree with your choice, but that does not mean they'd hate you. If the expectation or hope is that most people here will agree with your stance, then you'll be disappointed. That's being honest.
Indeed, you may find it downright boring here. I don't know your field of course, but if you're into high tech then you might find Austin or some parts of the West Coast more interesting. Austin has gayborhoods with bath houses, gay bars and nightclubs and the like. Other cities have a lot more variety of that type of thing.
To be forthright, I imagine this would be a pretty boring area in many ways for someone engaging in your lifestyle. Sure, there's a parade, but that's not much when you consider what other areas have to offer you.
OMG! I don't think I've been this offended in weeks! And I'm a hetrosexual married female!!!
Skipstone, you said it's unfair to label Christians as not being open minded or progressive and then you go on to suggest the original poster would prefer an area with "bath houses, gay bars and nightclubs and the like". Hello!!! Just like hetrosexuals not all gay folks are bar hoping night clubing bath housing people!!! I have both gay and lesbian friends and none of them would want to live in the type of neighborhood you describe! Most of them are just looking for the same thing that you are looking for... a safe, friendly neighborhood where they and their children are accepted and part of a community.
Skipstone if you truely think you are open minded then don't assume all gays and lesbians fit a certain mold.
NuRider, best of luck to you in your search. BTW, our family would welcome you and your partner openly to our neighborhood. In fact, one of the things I worry about when we leave Portland is that my kids won't be exposed to as many gay and lesbian teachers and neighbors and friends. Diversity makes us all better people!!
Oh my, PDXmom, don't get yourself in such a dither. You're close to sounding judgmental and open-minded people never do that. Rest assured that your using "OMG" offends me along with other Christians on this board.
You can search google yourself under "best gay cities" and find references to such amenities designed to attract people who are homosexuals. NuRider himself, if he is open to it, could tell you that it's common for gay publications to advertize bath houses, gay bars and nightclubs as attractions. It's nothing shameful or it would not be advertized on their sites.
From the tone of your post it almost sounds as though you think there is something wrong with that. I am confused.
RaleighRob referred to Raleigh as having a mini-"gay ghetto" downtown because he's aware of gay lingo. I used the term gayborhood because that is also lingo you will find in gay publications. It's the language of the culture.
You see, I also know homosexuals in my community and I've been told what many of them look for. While it's true that NuRider might himself not be interested, he knows that many of his persuasion are and in all sincerity if the homosexual community were embarrassed by such facts, then you wouldn't find it in their magazines and on the Internet.
If this were not the case then I would not have brought it up.
So I'm sorry you're offended, but if I lived in Boulder, Colorado and a poster asked if the people there are "openminded" and "progressive" enough to welcome people involved in Christianity - well, I'd be honest about that too.
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In fact, one of the things I worry about when we leave Portland is that my kids won't be exposed to as many gay and lesbian teachers and neighbors and friends. Diversity makes us all better people!!
PDXmom, if this truly worries you then in all honesty you may find your children do not get the exposures you desire to their fullest extent in this part of the country. Just as when I lived in Portland my children did not get the same level of desired Christian exposure that they would have received in some other region.
Places are just different.
Quote:
Diversity makes us all better people.
As far as diversity goes I think the term could use some defining. What you call diversity may be very different from what someone else calls it.
If you're speaking of diversity in terms of race or childhood background or talents or jobs experience or history, then yes, of course we have much we can learn from each other. That meaning of diversity does make us better people. You're absolutely right if that's what you're meaning.
But while we can always learn from each other, diversity in values is tearing this country apart because we have less and less to agree on. Several decades ago this country was more unified because most people held to common values. And that tradition still runs deep in the South.
At any rate, raging at people you disagree with is not respecting diversity.
But I forgive you and hold no grudge. Welcome to NC!
True, to a degree. However, the mere presence of financial, gender, racial, religious, sexual (etc) diversity does not make people better. A large part is their ability to make a fervent attempt at understanding and respecting the viewpoints of others, even if they differ from our own. By virtue of our own humanity, we are diverse.
Unfortunately, so many individuals in society have become far too sensitive, whiny and imposing of their own viewpoints (not all, but it appears a great majority). Such individuals, IMHO, could use a little lightening up and embrace each other's comfort zones and differences without jumping to self-centered conclusions.
Embrace the state of being human, and not necessarily the human state of being of a particular class, gender, race, religion, sexual preference or whatever. We're all different because we are human. And nothing in this world is going to make everything consistently agreeable with everyone.
And lastly, educate rather than eviscerate. If a viewpoint is so differently skewed from your own that it offends you, then enlighten them with education rather than publicly eviscerate them in a open community such as this one.
Okay, enough of that soapbox'd sermon, I need a latte!
Oh my, PDXmom, don't get yourself in such a dither. You're close to sounding judgmental and open-minded people never do that. Rest assured that your using "OMG" offends me along with other Christians on this board.
You can search google yourself under "best gay cities" and find references to such amenities designed to attract people who are homosexuals. NuRider himself, if he is open to it, could tell you that it's common for gay publications to advertize bath houses, gay bars and nightclubs as attractions. It's nothing shameful or it would not be advertized on their sites.
From the tone of your post it almost sounds as though you think there is something wrong with that. I am confused.
RaleighRob referred to Raleigh as having a mini-"gay ghetto" downtown because he's aware of gay lingo. I used the term gayborhood because that is also lingo you will find in gay publications. It's the language of the culture.
You see, I also know homosexuals in my community and I've been told what many of them look for. While it's true that NuRider might himself not be interested, he knows that many of his persuasion are and in all sincerity if the homosexual community were embarrassed by such facts, then you wouldn't find it in their magazines and on the Internet.
If this were not the case then I would not have brought it up.
So I'm sorry you're offended, but if I lived in Boulder, Colorado and a poster asked if the people there are "openminded" and "progressive" enough to welcome people involved in Christianity - well, I'd be honest about that too.
PDXmom, if this truly worries you then in all honesty you may find your children do not get the exposures you desire to their fullest extent in this part of the country. Just as when I lived in Portland my children did not get the same level of desired Christian exposure that they would have received in some other region.
Places are just different.
As far as diversity goes I think the term could use some defining. What you call diversity may be very different from what someone else calls it.
If you're speaking of diversity in terms of race or childhood background or talents or jobs experience or history, then yes, of course we have much we can learn from each other. That meaning of diversity does make us better people. You're absolutely right if that's what you're meaning.
But while we can always learn from each other, diversity in values is tearing this country apart because we have less and less to agree on. Several decades ago this country was more unified because most people held to common values. And that tradition still runs deep in the South.
At any rate, raging at people you disagree with is not respecting diversity.
But I forgive you and hold no grudge. Welcome to NC!
Skipstone, why would "Oh my gosh" offend you as a Christian? Surely, you weren't jumping to conclusion and thought the g stood for something else. That wouldn't be very open minded of you.
And who says open minded people don't make judgments? And when did I say I was open minded? I'm very closed minded about somethings... discrimination for one, preventing American Citizens from the right to marry who they love is another. Yep! Pretty much made up my mind on those and am VERY closed minded about them!
And since when is a google search the authority on anything?
Diversity in values will only tear apart this country if we decide we can't let others live by their own values.
And if you did not find Christians in Portland you were not looking very hard. There are many here.... but many Christians here do welcome everyone, including gays and lesbians, into their churches...kind of like Jesus probably would have done.
Skipstone, why would "Oh my gosh" offend you as a Christian? Surely, you weren't jumping to conclusion and thought the g stood for something else. That wouldn't be very open minded of you.
And who says open minded people don't make judgments? And when did I say I was open minded? I'm very closed minded about somethings... discrimination for one, preventing American Citizens from the right to marry who they love is another. Yep! Pretty much made up my mind on those and am VERY closed minded about them!
And since when is a google search the authority on anything?
Diversity in values will only tear apart this country if we decide we can't let others live by their own values.
And if you did not find Christians in Portland you were not looking very hard. There are many here.... but many Christians here do welcome everyone, including gays and lesbians, into their churches...kind of like Jesus probably would have done.
PDX Mom. Your posts expressed my feelings exactly. In Portland, I am in walking distance to four Christian churches ( 2 mega evangelical ) and the Mormon Seminary. The Jehovah's Witness hold their meetings every Saturday two houses down.
By definition, you cannot be a true christian (in the traditional sense of christianity) and be considered "progressive" because the entire concept of christianity relies on the presumption of "faith", the acceptance of logical fallacies, and the lack of individual reasoning. Progressive thought is characterized by empiricism.
I will be honest too. A while back a gay couple looked at the home across the street from us and it sure set the neighbors whispering. I don't know if that would have happend in CA where we moved from. I find most people much more liberal than I expected them to be. None the less in family oriented neighborhoods I think you could feel a chill.
I know two gay couples and a single gay man who live in Sunset Ridge-Holly Springs and they don't have any problems with it, they actually love it there. This must have been an isolated incident, they happen everywhere.
Embrace the state of being human, and not necessarily the human state of being of a particular class, gender, race, religion, sexual preference or whatever. We're all different because we are human. And nothing in this world is going to make everything consistently agreeable with everyone.
Caliboy, that is one of the most beautiful truths I've heard in a long while. A keeper for my file, if you don't mind. You are so right that the whining over differences only magnifies those differences. Very insightful and in keeping with common sense bearings.
... then you go on to suggest the original poster would prefer an area with "bath houses, gay bars and nightclubs and the like".
What's ironic is that NC has all of those...and Raleigh has all but the first one.
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