Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Based on my vast experience in these matters -- I Watch Judge Judy--I concur with those that say if its not within the four corners of the contract....it is your property upon closing the same as the hostas that may come up in the yard in the spring and the apples on the tree that they planted.
I disagree... and again this is only from my experience in California...
This is the problem with trying to extrapolate the law by anecdote.
Your experience with an automobile sounds like statutory abandonment, which differs from common law abandonment. It is not surprising that statutes have been created to address abandonment of vehicles. It is easy to imagine the problems that could result if abandoned vehicles could not be rather easily claimed.
It is very doubtful that a vehicle abandonment statute would apply to heating oil. You would most likely be left with common law abandonment, and it does, indeed, favor not finding an abandonment.
On what authority do you base your claim that it does not, other than your experience with what is surely statutory abandonment?
Based on my vast experience in these matters -- I Watch Judge Judy--I concur with those that say if its not within the four corners of the contract....it is your property upon closing the same as the hostas that may come up in the yard in the spring and the apples on the tree that they planted.
I like your rationale.
But even Judge Judy understands that your examples are attached to the land and therefore convey with the land.
The California Department of Realtor's standard Purchase Agreement and Deposit Receipt contains language addressing the disposition of all person property at the time of possession... obviously, this isn't the case here...
Try the sales contract, which says that the property, and anything on that property conveys unless listed otherwise.. ITS A SALES CONTRACT, your not entering into an agreement to purchase a storage shed
Try the sales contract, which says that the property, and anything on that property conveys unless listed otherwise.. ITS A SALES CONTRACT, your not entering into an agreement to purchase a storage shed
The OP has already stated that the sales contract doesn't mention heating oil. And I'm sure that if it stated that anything left on the property conveys, this thread would not exist.
The "standard" TX contract, for example, would not convey it. It conveys all improvements (which, in this case, means pemanently installed items), and certain specified unattached property.
Interestingly, the personal property that is specified includes things like keys, pool equipment, garage door openers, etc. If those things were not specified in the contract, they would not convey. Unless the heating oil is considered a fixture or improvement, it would also not convey unless specified.
It is a rather simple and straightforward concept in the law.
Another thing to look at in the contract is whether it requires utilities to be prorated at closing, and whether the contract has a general statement that all covenants in the contract survive closing.
The OP has already stated that the sales contract doesn't mention heating oil. And I'm sure that if it stated that anything left on the property conveys, this thread would not exist.
The "standard" TX contract, for example, would not convey it. It conveys all improvements (which, in this case, means pemanently installed items), and certain specified unattached property.
Interestingly, the personal property that is specified includes things like keys, pool equipment, garage door openers, etc. If those things were not specified in the contract, they would not convey. Unless the heating oil is considered a fixture or improvement, it would also not convey unless specified.
It is a rather simple and straightforward concept in the law.
Another thing to look at in the contract is whether it requires utilities to be prorated at closing, and whether the contract has a general statement that all covenants in the contract survive closing.
Then if the sales contract does not mention heating oil, and it was abandoned, what in gods earth makes you think the seller is entitled to recover for a cost not negotiated during the sale?
You do understand the closing process dont you? Buyers/sellers get together, they sign a contract conveying a property and everything in/on that property from a seller to a buyer. At THAT point title and everything on that property is conveyed to a buyer. THEY PAID FOR IT unless previously discussed on a contract.
The fact that the seller FORGOT to discuss something (oil) does not mean that they are entitled to come back at a later date and ask for reinbursement. Just like had the seller assumed that the oil was present, and there wasnt any at the time of closing. You can not assume anything. The minute the sellers turn title over to a buyer, and turn over keys, and sign over any rights to possession to the property, they sign over any rights to the property and the balance of whats left.
Trust me, I've been known to slide on the side of the legal issues (such as throwing out tenants without an eviction process, which was also deemed legal), this one isnt even close to questionable. I have bought dozens of properties, (probably over 50), if one seller ever came back to me and told me they "forgot" something, I'd tell them to get lost and there isnt a judge in the world who would give a seller credit for an item that was legally transferred at an official "closing". Before the closing, it might be an issue, after.. not a chance.
Why is it so hard for you to understand that a contract is a contract..
Then if the sales contract does not mention heating oil, and it was abandoned, what in gods earth makes you think the seller is entitled to recover for a cost not negotiated during the sale?
That's just it, it was not abandoned. Abandonment requires the intent to abandon it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
You do understand the closing process dont you? Buyers/sellers get together, they sign a contract conveying a property and everything in/on that property from a seller to a buyer. At THAT point title and everything on that property is conveyed to a buyer. THEY PAID FOR IT unless previously discussed on a contract.
I do understand the closing process, and if you think that anything that is touching the realty is conveyed unless it is excluded, it is clear to me that you don't understand it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Why is it so hard for you to understand that a contract is a contract..
Pot, meet kettle. Point me to the provision in the contract that says anything located on the property conveys at closing.
I'm sure you have your experience, but it is clear that you don't understand the legal effects of "an official closing." There is a description of property that is being conveyed. If something is not within the property description, it is not conveyed. Look, you need an understanding of the law to really know whether something is included within the property description, because the law assumes that some things automatically "go" with realty. Namely, permanent fixtures, easement rights, lots of other things. Unattached personal property does not automatically "go" with realty.
Now you may ultimately be able to gain title to it, but it is not because it was conveyed.
We received an e-mail from our realtor today letting us know that our seller "forgot" to mention that he had oil in the oil tank and now wants almost $700 for that oil. We closed on this house 5 weeks ago and have put tons of cash into the house, money we did not expect to spend, due to a variety of issues.
Basically there dog chewed up almost every piece of trim in the house and we had to replace it (we thought we could paint it but the damage was too severe). Also, they left us with a rather extensive plumbing issue which caused an explosion of sewage in our basement when our contractor attempted to install a new toilet. We had to pay a full day for the contractor to fix this problem.
If these aforementioned things hadn't happened, I guess we would feel like we owed them this money. I also feel their realtor and lawyer should absorb some of this cost - they should have taken care of this PRIOR to closing. Having never lived in an area that used oil for heat, we had no idea that this was an expense we had to pay, had we known we would have planned for it at the closing.
Any thoughts?
Once you're closed you're closed. Anything left on the property once the keys traded hands is yours. It is up to you whether or not you want to return it or pay for it. This would be like someone coming back and telling me they want me to pay for the water in the hot water tank in a house I just bought or gas in the gas tank of a car I just bought.
You're under no obligation. Although you can suggest a deal, he takes care of the trim and the plumbing problems and you'll pay for the oil
That's just it, it was not abandoned. Abandonment requires the intent to abandon it.
I do understand the closing process, and if you think that anything that is touching the realty is conveyed unless it is excluded, it is clear to me that you don't understand it.
Pot, meet kettle. Point me to the provision in the contract that says anything located on the property conveys at closing.
I'm sure you have your experience, but it is clear that you don't understand the legal effects of "an official closing." There is a description of property that is being conveyed. If something is not within the property description, it is not conveyed. Look, you need an understanding of the law to really know whether something is included within the property description, because the law assumes that some things automatically "go" with realty. Namely, permanent fixtures, easement rights, lots of other things. Unattached personal property does not automatically "go" with realty.
Now you may ultimately be able to gain title to it, but it is not because it was conveyed.
But there is also understanding. When you sell a car, it's assumed the oil in the system and the gas in the tank go with it. You don't come back weeks later and say "Oh by the way, I want to be paid for the gas that was in the tank".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
